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Hubb, <BR> <BR>and your question is what? <BR> <BR>My question is: <BR> <BR>Why would Finnish SDA evangelists bother to appeal to KJV, if IJ were easy to prove by using any of the Finnish translations from 1537-1548 (NT) and 1642 (OT) on? <BR> <BR> <BR><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikael_Agricola" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikael_Agricola</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se_Wsi_Testamenti" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se_Wsi_Testamenti</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firstborn_Laestadianism" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firstborn_Laestad ianism</a>
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I don't know what appeal Finnish evangelists use when they discuss the IJ. The IJ is just one aspect of the priestly ministry of Christ. And this is very important as it deals with the application of grace in the life of Christians. <BR> <BR>Of course, this can also be done without bringing up the IJ. However, putting it into complete context strengthens the message. <BR> <BR>One problem is that Leaders are usually very busy men and not necessarily students of the Bible. Maybe we should have business men run the conferences and let the preachers tend to the things of God! <BR> <BR>Hubb
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The best persons to answer to your question on how IJ is explained to the non-SDA audience are those Finnish SDA preachers who read these pages but do not participate in discussions. <BR> <BR>But when I last times read/listened to them, <BR> <BR>it was substantially smoke and mirrors, IMHO. <BR> <BR>In a nutshell: "By using Hebrews one cannot prove IJ, but it cannot be disproved either by Hebrews." <BR> <BR>They carefully avoid hinting to the difficulties connected to that theory.
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Alden Thompson, who was at our church this weekend for all day meetings, told us that there are some U.S. conferences who are hiring young men who have had short 3-6 months' theological training and are then hired as pastors! Evidently, they are preferred over the graduate seminary students because of the "anti-intellecutal" climate in parts of the SDA church today. <BR> <BR>Discussing his several books, he showed how most of the various genealogies in both the Old and New Testaments, cannot all be true; how the different estimates of numbers for the Exodus cannot all be correct, and recognized many other contradictions in the Bible; BUT--nevertheless, all the Bible characters are real and true!
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Alden Thompson represents the eyes-wide-open, sensitive-to-all, side of Adventism. I have found his books to be honest-hearted and positive in faith. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
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Yes, Alden has openly spoke about the contradictions and impossible figures, etc., in the Bible, as he has to answer student's questions honestly. <BR> <BR>It seems rather illogical to confess that, yes, there are errors, contradictions, and impossible correlations in duplicate stories in the Bible; while at the same time acknowledging those and yet maintaining that the people, if not events, actually were literal and real. <BR> <BR>One of the best books I have read, and am now rereading, is James Kugel's "How to Read the Bible." He honestly faces the various tellings of Bible stories and explains the possible reasons with his vast knowledge of all the Jewish interpretations through the centuries. Some of those, not formally adopted into the Bible, nevertheless, influenced the writings that did become canonized.
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Pauli said: <BR><font color="ff0000">In a nutshell: "By using Hebrews one cannot prove IJ, but it cannot be disproved either by Hebrews."</font><font color="000000"> <BR> <BR>I believe Hebrews <b>does</b> prove the IJ wrong. The IJ tells us Jesus didn't enter the Most Holy until 1844 Hebrew 9 tells us He entered at His ascension. <BR> <BR></font> Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here,[b] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; <b><u>but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.</u></b> <BR> <BR>Am I missing something besides a bunch of figures from the Old Testament stirred together to add up to 1844? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bob on January 20, 2009)
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Bob, <BR> <BR>the quote was not my claim, but it condenses what many supporters of IJ think and say.
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Thanks, I didn't notice the quotations. Bob
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