Rest in Peace

renie · 10-17-09 6:24 pm

Tom, thank you for you tribute to JR. He was a great moderator. Bob, come on...you can be just as onry as JR was. Weren't you kicked off the Spectrum site? I think you love to ruffle feathers too.

bob_2 · 10-17-09 7:09 pm

Being kicked off Liberal Spectrum can be a badge of honor, especially with this LSU controversey about evolution. I think they are learning that kicking people off just exposes people on their team like Alex Carpenter that has come pretty close to admitting he is a homosexual. <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/7/1899.html?1253940959" target=_top>http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/7/1899.ht ml?1253940959</a>

maggie · 10-17-09 7:34 pm

Da Neanderthal <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/87/2038.jpg" alt="JR">

apollo1983 · 10-17-09 9:15 pm

I have been blessed with great uncles, and Uncle Roy was amazingly cool, extremely smart, and really fun. He always took time for his niece and nephew. He used to call me at AUC at 3 in the morning! He was unpredictable, so you never knew what was going to happen when Uncle Roy was coming over! He fought hard in Vietnam for his beloved country, and loved his family intensely. When Claudia (my mom and his oldest sister) called me with the news, it was a shock. Back in my mind I just thought he would always be around. I will miss uncle Roy, and am excited about this next glorious chapter of his existence. RIP Uncle Roy.

bob_2 · 10-17-09 10:34 pm

Not to take away from nostalgic feelings of family, but if people are not honest of what was contributed or said, how can we honestly take on the Greers,the Alexander Carpenters, the Wisbeys, the Scrivens, the others that have polluted what ought to have been kept pure. J.R. purged .com of a lot of things like his vindictive feelings toward his ex-wife and bullying remarks to me specifically. However, there is enough left in the record of .com for those to see the caustic remarks J.R. made and his last remark in facebook saying he was "inebriated". Hold the example high, eh? Then go after those "rascally" LSU faculty. SHEEEEEEEEEEEESH as J.R. was known to say. Good Luck with our inconsistency. Rest in Peace friend, but yours was a troubled life, but you supplied an innovative way to keep debate, open debate going in at least the fringes of the church, even if you didn't understand the theology that was being discussed at times. We hope you were right with God when your time came.

bob_2 · 10-17-09 10:40 pm

Worship not any earthly man, but Christ/God alone. Make sure the message of this man is what you wish to pass on, to stand for. Innovator yes, always civil, no.

don · 10-17-09 11:27 pm

"One must not speak against the dead." An absolute rule? Not likely. In good taste? Most definitely. There is something about life When it is lost; we honor it. Looking on the good side of the soul Refreshes us all, for afterall If you can look on the good side of the dead Perhaps you can look on the good side of me. Don't criticize the preacher until Wednesday. Don't criticize the dead until mourning's past. We lived in community; J. R. and Us. He served Us well me thinks. .

bob_2 · 10-17-09 11:41 pm

See my remarks about Jodi Thiessen's status, and how about showing community while a significant contributor is still alive, bro!! J.R. chose to isolate himself with his booze, not us. RIP J.R. I remember you including a grand daughter's unkind remarks at our mother's funeral. I don't think I have quite forgiven you for violating and taking that liberty with that "absolute" rule, if you really believe in it.

admin · 10-18-09 12:50 am

Mike: Thank you for sharing with us another side of J.R. It is appreciated. Bob: I came after Jodi's work on ATomorrow, I guess, and I agree with you that the community she worked in should show their support of her. This thread, however, has developed into one in remembrance of J.R. at the moment. Please don't try to derail this thread.

bob_2 · 10-18-09 3:01 pm

Ryan, my point, always better to give deserved praise while one is still alive. I recognize the purpose of this thread, and will use it accordingly in the future, thanks Ryan.

tom_norris · 11-16-09 1:55 pm

J.R. Layman Avalanche-Journal Wednesday, October 21, 2009 Story last updated at 10/20/2009 - 5:26 pm Services for J.R. Layman, 60, of Lubbock, will be at 3 p.m. today in the Seventh Day Adventist Church (5302 Elgin Ave.), with Pastor Earl Robertson officiating. Military Honors will follow and cremation arrangements are under the direction of Calvillo Funeral Home. Mr. Layman passed away on Oct.15, 2009 in Lubbock. He was born to the late Adam and Esther Layman on Nov. 12, 1948 in Sacramento, Calif. He served in the United States Army and was a decorated veteran of the Vietnam War, receiving the Bronze Star. He achieved the rank of E-6 and was in the Black Horse 11th Armored Cavalry Division. He married Dr. Hedi Horsley on Jan. 17, 1981 in Dallas, Texas. He was the Office Manager in the Slaton Clinic and was a Baptist. He was preceded in death by two nephews. He is survived by his wife, Dr. Hedi Horsley-Layman of Lubbock-Slaton Clinic; a son, Winston Layman and wife Brandi of Lubbock; a daughter, Melissa Layman of Lubbock; a granddaughter, Taylor Layman of Lubbock; one brother, Paul Layman and wife Rhoda of Kingston, Wash.; three sisters, Claudia Harr and husband Al of Deer Lodge, Tenn., Linda Schermerhorn and husband Terry of Union Springs, N.Y. and Sharon Bisignano and husband Jim of Cape Cod, Mass; a host of nieces and nephews and a myriad of friends. <a href="http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/102109/obi_507125187.shtml" target=_top>http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/102109/obi_50 7125187.shtml</a> See also: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/flamezippo" target=_top>http://www.myspace.com/flamezippo</a>

don · 11-16-09 6:11 pm

Tom, thanks for this.

cadge · 01-07-10 8:14 pm

Mary Daly BOSTON (AP) — Radical feminist Mary Daly, the iconoclastic theologian who proclaimed, "I hate the Bible," and retired from Boston College rather than allow men to take her classes, has died. She was 81. Daly died Sunday of natural causes at Wachusett Manor nursing home in Gardner, Mass., said her longtime friend, Nancy Kelly. She passed away as a friend read to Daly from one of her own books, "Websters' First New Intergalactic Wickedary of the English Language," Kelly said Wednesday. Daly's tumultuous career at the Jesuit-run Boston College ended after three decades when she refused to open her classroom to men, believing women did not freely exchange ideas if men were present. Men, she said, "have nothing to offer but doodoo." But Emily Culpepper, a friend and professor at the University of Redmond in California, said Daly was not anti-male. "She was anti-male domination, which is a different thing," Culpepper said. Poet Robin Morgan called Daly "the first feminist philosopher." "She really pushed the boundaries, and that drove some people bananas," Morgan said. "But that kind of intellectual courage is, in fact, what usually moves the species forward, even if it gets trampled on in its own time." Daly grew up in Schenectady, N.Y., the only child of an ice cream freezer salesman and telephone operator. She received her bachelor's degree from the College of Saint Rose, then a master's degree at Catholic University of America. She later earned doctorates at Notre Dame and the University of Fribourg in Switzerland before becoming a professor at Boston College in 1966. Daly's career at BC ended in 2001, when she retired to settle a lawsuit. Daly sued BC after the school tried to force her to retire over her refusal to accept men in her classes. She had agreed to privately tutor men who wanted to take her classes. Daly wrote about her intellectual formation in a 1996 article in the New Yorker "Sin Big," in which she recalled being mocked by a male classmate, and altar boy, at her parochial school because she could never "serve Mass" because she was a girl. "(T)his repulsive revelation of the sexual caste system that I would later learn to call 'patriarchy' burned its way into my brain and kindled an unquenchable Rage," she wrote. Daly described herself as a pagan, an eco-feminist and a radical feminist in a 1999 interview with The Guardian newspaper of London. "I hate the Bible," she told the paper. "I always did. I didn't study theology out of piety. I studied it because I wanted to know." Her first book, "The Church and the Second Sex" in 1968, criticized the church as a product and fount of sexism amid the growing women's movement. Five years later, she wrote "Beyond God the Father: Toward a Philosophy of Women's Liberation." Her other books included "Pure Lust: Elemental Feminist Philosophy" in 1984. Gloria Steinem called Daly "a brilliant writer, a brilliant theoretician," who enabled women to move beyond the oppression of male-dominated religious hierarchies to see "that there's God in themselves and in all living things." "She was enough ahead of her time so that I believe she will be appreciated far beyond it," she said. Daly's ashes will be buried at Mt. Auburn cemetery in Cambridge, Kelly said. A memorial service is planned in the Boston-area in the spring. Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. -------------- WOW! I guess she didn't care for the order. Did you ever hear of this woman, Elaine? Cadge

elaine · 01-08-10 1:34 pm

No, I can't recall her name, but it takes a very outspoken woman (think Mary Wollstencraft) to show up the rampant patriarchy in all societies. She, and others like her, opened the doors for women in education, business, and all areas. Just in a few short years, women make up the larger number in college graduates. Where will it be twenty years from now when women have demonstrated their capabilities completely? Reminds me of the famous writer, Virginia Woolf, who said that in the great halls of Cambridge, the male writers from generations past were prominently displayed. But not a single fenale: the Brontes, Austen, George Sand and George Elliot and others now recognized as among the "greats."

cadge · 01-08-10 3:13 pm

Goodness!! On George Sand: "Poet Charles Baudelaire was a contemporary critic of George Sand: "She is stupid, heavy and garrulous. Her ideas on morals have the same depth of judgment and delicacy of feeling as those of janitresses and kept women.... The fact that there are men who could become enamoured of this slut is indeed a proof of the abasement of the men of this generation." <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sand" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sand</a> I guess that she didn't recon there was "a heaven to gain and a hell to shun". Maybe Baudelaire neither? But she was nonetheless busy. WORKS * Voyage En Auvergne (autobiographical sketch, 1827) * Compagnon Du Tour De France (1840) * La Petite Fadette (1848) * Château Des Désertes (1850) * Histoire De Ma Vie (autobiography up to the revolution of 1848; 1855) Novels * Rose Et Blanche (1831, with Jules Sandeau) * Indiana (1832) * Valentine (1832) * Lélia (1833) * Andréa (1833) * Mattéa (1833) * Jacques (1833) * Kourroglou / Épopée Persane (1833) * Leone Leoni (1833) * Simon (1835) * Mauprat (1837) * les Maîtres Mosaïtes (1837) * l'Oreo (1838) * l'Uscoque (1838) * Spiridion (1839) * Un Hiver À Majorque (1839) * Pauline (1839) * Horace (1840) * Consuelo (1842) * La Comtesse de Rudolstadt (1843, a sequel to Consuelo) * Jeanne (1844) * Teverino (1845) * Pêche de M Antoine (1845) * Le Meunier D'Angibault (1845) * La Mare Au Diable (1846) * Lucrezia Floriani (1846) * François Le Champi (1847) * La Petite Fadette (1849) * Les Maîtres Sonneurs (1853) * La Daniella (1857) * Elle Et Lui (1859) * Jean De La Roche (1859) * L'Homme De Neige (1859) * La ville Noire (1860) * Marquis De Villemer (1860) * Mademoiselle La Quintinie (1863) * Laura, Voyage Dans Le Cristal (1864) * Le Dernier Amour (1866, dedicated to Flaubert) * the marquise [edit] Plays * Gabriel (1839) * François Le Champi (1849) * Claudie (1851) * Le Mariage De Victorine (1851) * Le Pressoir (1853, Play) * French Adaptation of As You Like It (1856) * Le Marquis De Villemer (1864) * L'Autre (1870, with Sarah Bernhardt) Where'd she find the time?

elaine · 01-08-10 7:17 pm

Fortunately, we do not choose our writers for their morals. If we did, there would be few well-known writers. Who should be nominated?

elaine · 01-08-10 7:19 pm

Or few interesting and well-read authors. Life's experiences are not usually interesting if the writer is staid, conforming and non-adventursome. (Exception: Jane Austen or Emily Dickinson)

admin · 01-09-10 3:00 am

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Fortunately, we do not choose our writers for their morals. If we did, there would be few well-known writers.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> I hope, Elaine, that you won't add "moral" to that list. To say that there would be few interesting and well-read authors if we chose them for their morality coupled with the quote above heavily implies that you see life's experiences as most likely boring if such a life is moral. Are you sure about that? There are many writers who are well-read, have led pretty sweet lives without conforming, and can be considered moral (I think all of us can agree on that term in a general sense). Then there are the writers who choose to be immoral for the sole purpose of being immoral--to fly in the face of tradition, to cause a ruckus, to drop the f-bomb in their post-modern literature because these things, somehow, show that they must be skilled writers... It's dangerous and silly for an author to think, "If I just throw in a couple of f-bombs, gratuitous sex scenes, and maybe some murders, this will be a best seller!" The authors who have stuck with us through time, both male and female, have risen beyond petty assumptions and attempts. Sure, many of them have been rascals and beyond, but many of them have also been pretty good people. But I've rambled. In regards to what you have said above, I'm curious as to what you think the full demonstration of women's capabilities will be? The total emasculation of man and further breakdown of society? Sex devoid of love? The eradication of love? An Amazonia on earth? I'm pro-women. I'm glad they can vote, I recognize their achievements, intellect, and skills, and I like many of them. But many people don't see the problem with shouting "equality now!" when men and women can never be equal. Women wanted to be just like men in the workplace. They got their wish and now many of them aren't happy, wish they could have kids but don't know how to juggle that with their career aspirations, etc. The list could go on. Feminism is a blight, just as much as total patriarchism (new word, you get the point) is. We as a society need to realize the complementary roles each gender plays and encourage the filling of those roles instead of chasing after artificial and arbitrary steps on various social ladders so that we can hope to feel fulfilled. The majority won't feel fulfilled, but in the meantime the family will have been destroyed, with society following suit quickly after. I don't just blame feminism, though. It's an unfortunate combination of feminism, Hollywood, other media, and the "I deserve everything!" attitude of easy credit.

elaine · 01-09-10 1:22 pm

I'm curious as to what you think the full demonstration of women's capabilities will be? The total emasculation of man and further breakdown of society? Sex devoid of love? The eradication of love? An Amazonia on earth? You caricature women's emancipation which by now is very old hat. Where can you quote a female writer who wished to be "devoid of love" or become an Amazon? And where do you find women who are desirous of "emasculating men"? That is the 1960s when men were so fearful of women achieving equality in education and work that they were afraid they would "take over the world." Now that women have gained in many areas formerly closed, do men really fear their "taking over the world"? For those who do, get over it. All we want are equal opportunities, and now that we are well on the way it does not mean that it is a zero sum game. Both sexes gain when women are no longer completely dependent on males. Who would have it any other way? The young men of today are very happy to relinquish much of the burden of financial support and are sharing household and parental duties much more than in the past. Who would wish to return to the days of "Leave it to Beaver"? As a child of the 30s I have seen much more change in society than many, and never would I return to those nostalgic years pictured by some (who did not live then). BTW, for fathers of daughters, the portrait presented is not at all their wishes.

admin · 01-09-10 2:49 pm

I wouldn't be so quick to throw in the caricature label, old hat and all, into the ring, seeing as you've shared your own exaggerations. The term 'caricature' is a bad one to use, though, and I'm sorry you don't see it. It's bad because its use connotes falsity. What I've said and am saying isn't false. Why try to pigeonhole by asking for quotes from female writers? Look around the Western world today. The evidence is there on college campuses and high schools, plays such as The Vagina Monologues, mass media shows and movies, etc. Even a car commercial for Cadillac! You can't quote from these things, but that doesn't make them any less valid. Oh, and there are female writers who have shared some of these sentiments. Perhaps they won't be considered representative of the feminist movement (whatever that phrase means these days), but they are feminists nevertheless. Google-fu some blogs and you'll find them. I said "some of these sentiments" because I don't believe there are actually writers out there hoping to be devoid of love (the Amazon bit was a joke). But, it doesn't matter if they don't want to be devoid of love or if they do. The concept of love has been changed and is changing everyday, and the feminism movement has been a major force behind this change. Think about it. Feminism tells women they can be equal with men. Women try to be equal with men. They succeed. Men, like you said, are thrilled to share the burdens of financial support. Now, money has replaced love. Some of the first questions women get when on dates in NYC, for example, are things like, "How much money do you have?" or "Do you have a trust fund?" When they do marry they sign pre-nuptials. When they divorce there's a war over money, belongings, and kids. You tell me where the love is, and then when you realize it's not there, look for the source. I see you ignored sex devoid of love. It's a fact and needs no more explanation. Of course this has existed for ages and of course women have used their bodies as tools throughout history, but I don't recall there being any time period when this strategy has been so supported and defended. And yes, many males are thrilled about it. I agree with you when you say both sexes win when females aren't completely dependent on males. I assume you're against the old patriarchal way of things and have embraced the feminist solution, but we've only traded one extreme end of the pendulum for the other. Feminism as an ideal was good, but it's been hijacked by radical and extremist voices and opinions. This is not new. I hope a middle ground is found soon, but I fear a generation or two are going to be screwed up first. <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:As a child of the 30s I have seen much more change in society than many, and never would I return to those nostalgic years pictured by some (who did not live then). <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> If this is a dig, that's fine. I've had the "you're too young and inexperienced card" used against me before, however, and not to my detriment but only as a compound to the foolishness of the other party. I have enjoyed this little conversation and am open to your views, but if you wish to continue this topic we will have to create a new thread for it.

Adventists for Tomorrow

Announcement

#51 10-17-09 6:24 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#52 10-17-09 7:09 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#53 10-17-09 7:34 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#54 10-17-09 9:15 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#55 10-17-09 10:34 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#56 10-17-09 10:40 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#57 10-17-09 11:27 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#58 10-17-09 11:41 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#59 10-18-09 12:50 am

Re: Rest in Peace

#60 10-18-09 3:01 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#61 11-16-09 1:55 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#62 11-16-09 6:11 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#63 01-07-10 8:14 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#64 01-08-10 1:34 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#65 01-08-10 3:13 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#66 01-08-10 7:17 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#67 01-08-10 7:19 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#68 01-09-10 3:00 am

Re: Rest in Peace

#69 01-09-10 1:22 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

#70 01-09-10 2:49 pm

Re: Rest in Peace

Board footer