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Simply read Col 2:16, 17
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
and Heb 8:13
Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
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I want to be clear about how Tom operates as a moderator. I started a new thread: "NCT solves Saturday/Sunday worship issue." He chose to insert "Fails to solve..." without discussion on the thread and why he took away someone's right to declare his believe as he has done. Simply by declaring does not make his or my statements correct. I suggest the read as always read paste the title to prove for himself which position is correct.
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Bob, the two texts you quoted are not sufficient to understand the NC Sabbath of Christ, much less to defend NCT. If you want to know what Jesus teaches about the Sabbath, then you must go to the Gospels and learn from Jesus, the Lord of the Gospel Sabbath.
Those who run from the Gospels, and refuse to learn Gospel doctrine directly from Christ, are playing a fools game. They are following a false Christ and a worthless, mythical Gospel, which cannot save anyone.
Are you sure you want to keep running away from the Gospels?
Are you certain that the right thing to do is avoid and repudiate what Christ teaches about the 7th day Sabbath?
I urge all that are honestly seeking truth, to find it in Christ.
Bob 2 posted Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Tom said: Paul does not say that there is no Sabbath for the church. In fact, this passage shows that the apostolic church did have a weekly doctrine of the Sabbath, which is why Paul is saying not to let people judge or condemn them for it.
Moreover, this passage does not affirm the NCT view of the Every Day Sabbath. If such a view exists, it must be found in the Gospels. If you examine the Gospels, you will see what Jesus really teaches about the NC Sabbath, and it is not what you are promoting. Sorry.
Bob posted: Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Tom said: The doctrine of the NC Sabbath is part of the NC. While the OC Sabbath is obsolete, not so with the updated doctrine that Jesus taught for the church.
Jesus never teaches a disappearing Sabbath, much less one that is Every Day of the week. These are false views, along with Sunday, which is also a major error.
Bob 2 said: I want to be clear about how Tom operates as a moderator.
Tom replied: Ha! It will take more than posting two, non-Gospel texts by the NCT crowd to win this debate. You are not even in the right part of the NT to understand this discussion!
This should not be a new thread, as we already have at least one that is full of information and discussion proving NCT false and wrong. So why do we need another one? We don’t. You have provided nothing new or even useful. So this thread is going to be taken down, or moved to the correct thread, which is:
NCT Exposed As Error
http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=953
Bob 2 complained: I started a new thread: "NCT solves Saturday/Sunday worship issue." He chose to insert "Fails to solve..." without discussion on the thread and why he took away someone's right to declare his believe as he has done.
Tom said: Ha! You started a false and dishonest thread that did not live up to its title. You have solved nothing, nor have you even quoted the words of Jesus from the Gospels.
I corrected the title to reflect reality. NCT is garbage. It has been dismembered for all to see on the NCT thread, as well as some others. No need for any additional threads. But the others are open to say whatever you want. So don’t pretend this is censorship. You have posted nothing of substance.
Bob 2 said: Simply by declaring does not make his or my statements correct. I suggest the read as always read paste the title to prove for himself which position is correct.
Tom said: I have proven to all that NCT is fiction. Go to the proper thread and see for yourself. If you think you can refute what is so obvious, have at it. But this latest effort is not worth a new thread. It is more of same nonsense that has already been discredited.
The fact of the matter is this: Jesus teaches an active, 7th day Sabbath for the church. He does not teach an Every Day Sabbath or a Sunday Sabbath. Nor does he teach what the SDA’s claim. Only what Jesus teaches, is doctrine for the church.
Any who are serious about receiving Eternal Life, had better figure out what Jesus teaches about the Sabbath and then follow him on this and every other point. If people can’t understand the doctrine of the Sabbath correctly, then they can’t follow the genuine Jesus of the Gospels.
I suggest that you, and others, try harder to understand Gospel truth.
Tom Norris for New Covenant Adventism
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Bob 2 posted Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Tom said: Paul does not say that there is no Sabbath for the church. In fact, this passage shows that the apostolic church did have a weekly doctrine of the Sabbath, which is why Paul is saying not to let people judge or condemn them for it.
Nice going Tom. You now have given validity to the Old Covenant seventh day Sabbath, New Moon Sabbath and all the festivals as if they still stand as requirements for the present day Christian believers. If you're going to say that, by this verse, the Seventh day Sabbath still stands, then you have to say the same for the other days.
Cadge
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Cadge said: Nice going Tom. You now have given validity to the Old Covenant seventh day Sabbath, New Moon Sabbath and all the festivals as if they still stand as requirements for the present day Christian believers.
Tom replied: Ha! I did not write Colossians. So you have to blame Paul, not me. That man is a great troublemaker, I agree. He even went into the Temple and participated in the sacrificial rituals, with the full blessing of the leading Apostles. Which caused a riot.
Paul supports those 1st century Jews who still wanted to participate in the Temple, Passover, and other Jewish Festivals. These Jewish things were not mutually exclusive to Faith in Christ. Which is why Paul participated in Temple sacrifices in an attempt to let the Jews know that he was not against Judaism or the law.
Jewish traditions did not automatically become false or evil for Jewish Christians, especially if they viewed them through the Gospel, acknowledging such things pointed to Christ. Which is why we see Paul going to the Temple and observing OC rituals. (It worked out badly for him, but that is beside the point).
Acts 21:17 After we arrived in Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
Acts 21:18 And the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
Acts 21:19 After he had greeted them, he began to relate one by one the things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
Acts 21:21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
Acts 21:22 “What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Acts 21:23 “Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Acts 21:24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Acts 21:25 “But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
Acts 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.
Note that the Gentiles were not expected to follow the Jewish traditions to the same extent, as were the Jewish Christians. Such a double standard caused debate in the church, of which Galatians is a part.
Moreover, Paul was also mindful that the Gentiles have religious traditions too. Even though they are full of myths, the church was to treat such people gently. Not judging them as evil or unsaved.
1Cor. 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
1Cor. 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
1Cor. 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
1Cor. 8:7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
Rom. 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom. 14:2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom. 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
So long as the Gospel was not at risk, Paul was easy on those Jews and Gentiles that had past religious traditions to deal with. But the moment the Gospel became at risk, which it did in the Galatian debate, he would condemn tradition.
Cadge said: If you're going to say that, by this verse, the Seventh day Sabbath still stands, then you have to say the same for the other days.
Tom said: First, the church today, both Protestant and Catholic, has always embraced a weekly Sabbath or Lord’s Day. This is because Christ teaches a NC Sabbath for the church that is very different from OC Judaism.
Sunday became this NC Sabbath day.
So the church gets points for trying. Now they need to get it fully correct.
But the point here is to understand that there has always been a weekly doctrine of the Sabbath for the church. NCT has never been embraced by any church or denomination. It is utter nonsense.
Second, no verse in Colossians explains the NC Sabbath. One must go to the Gospels and learn this directly from Christ.
Third, Jesus makes it clear that there is still a 7th day Sabbath doctrine for the world, meaning all mankind. It is not the OC Sabbath, because he fought against this doctrine in the Gospels for all to see. Rather, it is an active, Gospel based doctrine, which has been overlooked and misunderstood for centuries.
It’s time to fully understand the Gospel and the doctrine of the NC Sabbath.
Let all go to Jesus in the Gospels and find the true NC Sabbath. What he teaches is what must stand as true Gospel doctrine.
It is time for the Advent Community to move into the light of the NC.
I hope this helps.
Tom Norris for Adventist Reform and the NC Sabbath
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