Adventists for Tomorrow

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#1 01-29-10 7:49 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Hey, if you read this article, it would appear all our efforts to control climate change, or global warming is playing right in to this terrorist's hands, Bin Laden. If what he says is true, China and India are his worst enemies, NO????

CAIRO (AP) - Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden has called for the world to boycott American goods and the U.S. dollar, blaming the United States and other industrialized countries for global warming, according to a new audiotape released Friday.

In the tape, broadcast in part on Al-Jazeera television, bin Laden warned of the dangers of climate change and says that the way to stop it is to bring "the wheels of the American economy" to a halt.

He blamed Western industrialized nations for hunger, desertification and floods across the globe, and called for "drastic solutions" to global warming, and "not solutions that partially reduce the effect of climate change."

Bin Laden has mentioned climate change and global warning in past messages, but the latest tape was his first dedicated to the topic. The speech, which included almost no religious rhetoric, could be an attempt by the terror leader to give his message an appeal beyond Islamic militants.

The al-Qaida leader also targeted the U.S. economy in the recording, calling for a boycott of American products and an end to the dollar's domination as a world currency.

"We should stop dealings with the dollar and get rid of it as soon as possible," he said. "I know that this has great consequences and grave ramifications, but it is the only means to liberate humanity from slavery and dependence on America."

He argued that such steps would also hamper Washington's war efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The new message, whose authenticity could not immediately be confirmed, comes after a bin Laden tape

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100129/D9DHDH582.html

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#2 12-07-10 12:58 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Ship Albert Gore over to share his Nobel Prize with Osama. I looked at the stats on Global warming once and found if you compare 100 years worth of climate stats to 4000 years of data, we look to be within norms of our past weather activity.

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#3 12-11-10 5:34 pm

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Oh, Good grief.

Osama Bin Laden is also against extramarital sex, that doesn't prove that extramarital sex is good.

Bob_2, I have no doubt you looked over 4000 years of data and decided that global warming is a hoax. You can find whatever you want to find on the internet. Most serious scientists who study climatology, however, are convinced that it is happening.

Sadly, people's politics and economic theories make it impossible for them to accept such things.

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#4 12-12-10 1:48 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Yitzak, you have set yourself up nicely for anything presented to have doubt cast on it. Non-the-less I will show this article about Al Gore's carbon foot print before "An Inconvenient Truth" and after he has garnered great personal wealth:

Al Gore's Carbon Footprint Is Big.
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/Nu … on_fo.html

Last edited by bob_2 (12-12-10 1:52 am)

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#5 12-12-10 10:51 am

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Al Gore is not a scientist and has no bearing on whether global warming is a concern or not, any more than Pastor X, Y, or Z cheating on their spouse has any bearing on whether marriage is a sacred institution.

If you live in one of those areas that has had mountain top removal, or had their woodlands decimated to make room for parking lots, or simply cheap paper, in some sense, global warming is beside the point as well. There are a finite amount of natural resources on earth, which were put here in part for the sustenance and enrichment of human life. The multinational corporations you're advocating for here don't care if they turn someone's backyard or ancestral hunting ground, or Sabbath afternoon hiking area into a poisonous wasteland.

It doesn't even take belief in science to see that.

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#6 12-12-10 10:14 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

That's why Al Gore got the Nobel Prize, Yitzak??  Why do you think Obama is for CAP & TRADE ? Somebody is going to get wealthy out of it.  Obama put a moratorium on drilling offshore and sent money to Brazil for their offshore drilling at 4 times the depth that BP screwed up at.

Yitzak, people's view on CAP & TRADE I think as more to do with their view of God and Him put man on a planet where His plan was to have man  run out of what we need to live. Make me wonder about Al Gore's view of God.

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#7 12-13-10 7:05 am

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Once again, bob_2, you are pointing toward popular media and political figures. Gore did not win his Nobel Prize for science.

And, whoever may get wealthy under cap and trade, do you really believe that your political play callers don't want to make money even more by simply destroying God's earth?

As to your notion that envirnonmental regulation somehow proves that people have a view of God's plan as flawed is silly. Laws preventing murder don't prove that God planned for people to murder.

Do you seriously believe that God intended huge multinational corporations to dump toxic sludge into lakes and rivers????

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#8 12-13-10 8:05 am

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Bob
God did provide for the "needs" of mankind as well as other life.But that does not mean He made provision for their selfish desires.That the 5% percent of the population should have 90% of the resources available.

The most disregarded of the commandments is the tenth one although EGW thought the 4th was the important one. The ideal society would be one like the early Christian church "from each according to their ability to each according to their need"

The resources of the world are finite if one person gets two pieces of the pie someone else gets none.

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#9 12-13-10 8:20 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

God puts people in high places and can remove them.  You believe that God would allow His plans to be thwarted? All His purposes will be realized!!

Psalm 33:11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever,
the purposes of his heart through all generations.


Romans 9:30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:
   “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
   and a rock that makes them fall,
   and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

Last edited by bob_2 (12-13-10 8:22 am)

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#10 12-13-10 8:58 am

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Once again, Bob, you are using God's omnipotence as an excuse for the bad behavior of your corporate friends. The fact that God put people in power and can remove them doesn't remove our responsibility to do what He asks us to do, i.e., care for the earth as stewards.

What you seem unwilling to acknowledge is that your friends at Exxon and BP are not doing God's will with regard to how they treat His creation.

And if you want to argue that the fact that the CEOs of multinational corporations have power proves that God wants them there and that we should accept them as our overlords, then clearly you and I have very different views of the world.

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#11 12-13-10 10:38 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Yitzak, I do have a little problem with the hypocrisy of the Left. Let's build a society based on gas/oil, then become the major proponent to with hold that resource, then whine about $3.00 a gallon gas prices when countries like China have the lax standards they do. I followed one story where in China a major river of theirs in the last year had a flow of contamination that killed most of the river's wildlife. We want free trade where we are the only ones with the Eco standards. Then we cry again when China's toys for our kids have lead in the components. If you want your standards, then lets have all comply with them but to have  a society based on a resource we have plenty of is sheer nonsense not to use them but pay other countries to send us oil. This is not a matter of waiting on God to remove a high official but to have common sense when applying laws to our selves or others.

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/12/13/1 … doing.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … ution.html

Last edited by bob_2 (12-13-10 11:03 am)

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#12 12-13-10 11:17 am

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Bob
It is the hypocracy of the Right that is frightening.They exploit people and resources for their own selfish gains regardless of the damage to the environment or individuals.

In a recent article on industrial agriculture it is noted that it is nonsustainable.

Whether or not global warming is real we know that the present global economy is not moral or correct.

Only those who shut their eyes to reality think it can continue to be business as usual.The handwriting has been on the wall for quite awhile now for the USA it is sad that GWB et al was too blind to see it. Obama by simply printing paper money is guaranteeing that the finacial collapse of the USA will be irreversable.

Chicken Little has finally been vindicated. The sky is indeed falling.

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#13 12-13-10 3:45 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Old Abe, Thanks for the discussion, but,I vaguely remember this side of GWB's beginning of his second term, that he tried to get a discussion going in both House and Senate regarding the solvency or lack there of for Social Security. They weren't having any of it. They chose to kick the can down the road, hoping for Democratic President. Well now they have it, but with this huge Deficit that he has signed on to, I doubt that he wants to talk about Social Security in the next two years.

You may want to take a look at the far Left and the problems that may be addressed when the Republicans take over the House of Representatives. Obama may not have come into office with a mandate but at least an agenda. "Not a horse but a horse of different color non-the-less".

"I have said in the past _ and I'll repeat again _ that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed," the Illinois Democrat said recently.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/0 … 16506.html

The huge Deficit that he signed onto this side of GWB exiting the WH looks more and more like what he said he was against. As well as this case and his fingerprints on it.:


The “Pigford” Fraud on the American Taxpayer

http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/12/the-% … -taxpayer/

Last edited by bob_2 (12-13-10 4:04 pm)

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#14 12-13-10 9:05 pm

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Bob_2, your race-baiting is repulsive in the extreme. It's clear from your quote that Obama was saying that instead of reparations as usually construed by the Black far left, a more productive outcome for all Americans would be American prosperity, which would rise all boats.

Unless you believe that Black people by their very nature don't deserve a chance at a decent education and a deserved job.

your link the far-right screed against Black farmers notwithstanding, you'll pardon me if I don't weep too heavily for the white racists whose company you seem to enjoy.

Your proclivity to turn every discussion into the latest Republican talking point is tiresome in the extreme. And this latest low, for you, on this board confirms my suspicion that nothing good will come of further dialogue with you.

may God bless you and speak to you.

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#15 12-14-10 3:42 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

You are very opinionated and prejudical with your views. You don't take time to hear the message and seek common ground not compromise your positions. But here is the definition of:

Definition of RACE-BAITING
: the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group

You are calling  Antisemite for the Jews and Race-Baiting when the comment offends you with no real criitical thinking. The Truth has nothing to fear,unless  transparency is abscent.

Since you are prejudiced first and ask question later. You are not transparent but love to have the last word. So go for it. I had a Black boss,  female, who vouched for me that I don't have a racist bone in my body. How about you??

Last edited by bob_2 (12-14-10 3:49 am)

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#16 12-14-10 1:49 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Yitzak, using the definition above, where is the attack. If you have gotten to the place that siting a public article or the progress of lawsuits and fraud get labelled RACE-BAITING we all are in trouble.

We used to have on Atomorrow.com some "bomb-throwers" where they loved to toss an accusation into the conversation but when the truth or veracity was questioned, they found their control and strength by never responding.

I have worked in the Black community for some 20 years, and I dare say I can spot a racist on either side of a discussion. But one thing I have noticed over the years, the Jewish people are usually the first to yell ANTISEMITE the moment that you say anything they don't agree with. Take Hebrews 8:13, one of the moderators at Spectrum said I was an ANTISEMITE for saying the Old Covenant between the Jews and God was now obsolete.

Was this statement by Paul an ANTISEMITE or RACIST statement:

Acts 18:6  But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Last edited by bob_2 (12-14-10 1:50 pm)

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#17 12-14-10 5:37 pm

Yitzak
Member
Registered: 09-12-10
Posts: 78

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Who said anything about antisemites??????

That's a very odd projection on your part. I am focused on the racist content you linked to and the racist implication. I didn't actually call you a racist, but focused on what you said here in a public forum.

I am sorry- if you can't see that it is racist behavior to believe that a Black president's primary objective is to give goods specifically to Black people, to enact stealth reparations that will benefit only Black people and otherwise privilege the concerns of Black people over those of White people, well our conversation really is at an end. There have been 40+ white US presidents, and it would be equally silly to impute that they were only there for the white Americans (at least once non-whites were accorded citizenship). And based on the tenuous and silly accusations in the link you provided, and your deliberate misrepresentation of what Obama said with regard to reparations. The most generous assumption one could make is that you have trouble occasionally reading for comprehension.

Regardless of what your reason, you are engaging in bearing false witness, and doing so in a way that feeds into the kind of racist thinking that is prevalent among hardcore white supremacists. (the notion that Obama will somehow enact stealth reparations is a big concern among the KKK and internet supremacists like stormfront, whose forum has more than 400 THREADS about the topic.

to sum:
1. there is no evidence that Obama is enacting reparations. (bearing false witness)
2. To believe something outlandish without any proof is the very definition of prejudice (although I will grant that it's certainly likely that partisan rather than racial partisanship informs your willingness to believe in the silly things that can be found in the crazy corners of the internet.
3. The particular fear that is on display that Black people, somewhere, will get something for nothing, especially absent evidence, as noted above, is the kind of fear that keeps a small class of people awake at night.
4. This new notion about Obama's secret agenda to help Black people came up in a completely unrelated discussion, about environmentalism, making it even more farfetched, given that it's out of context.
5. your bizarre insertion of antisemitism into the conversation when it was not mentioned AT ALL, and your generalizations about "the Jewish people" speak for themselves.
6. you singlehandedly are filling the "history and politics" section not with articles that are likely to provoke discussion, but to drive home your main point here, which seems to be "republicans good, democrats evil." That's got precious little to do with adventism or Christianity. it's not my role to police the on-vs-off-topic stuff, but I am under no obligation to participate in your odd insertion of politics into what is meant to be a largely biblical and religious discussion.

For the above reasons, I don't see any point in conversing here with you. You may be a wonderful guy in real life, I suspect you are, but in choosing who I deal with on the internet, i have to focus on internet behavior.

I have answered your above post in more detail, which probably was itself unwise, but rest assured, it's the end of the conversation from my perspective.

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#18 12-14-10 6:18 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Bin Laden blasts US for climate change

Yitzak, you get the last word, I hope!!!

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