You are not logged in.
Obama Declines To Defend U.S. Bombing Of Hiroshima, Nagasaki <BR> <BR> <BR><a href="http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2009/11/13/obama-fails-defend-u-s-bombing-hiroshima-nagasaki" target=_top>http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2009 /11/13/obama-fails-defend-u-s-bombing-hiroshima-na gasaki</a> <BR> <BR>Would it have been insensitive to answer that given the context of the war, it was the right decision??
Offline
I don't blame him. To voice the truth of the matter would have only served to make him appear as being anti American. He wasn't though. He was only anti bad decision in this case. After the Okinawa and Yokohama campaigns, March-June 1945, the Japanese navy and air force were devastated. We were just off the mainland. There was nowhere to go and nothing left to fight with. The bombs weren't dropped until Aug 5th and 9th on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And, we didn't kill soldiers, we killed civilians; 140,000 and 80,000. It just wasn't necessary. <BR> <BR>Cadge
Offline
<b><font color="0000ff">There was nowhere to go and nothing left to fight with.</font></b> <BR> <BR>I wonder how many Americans died between June 1945 and August 5th? <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
Offline
no defense, but plenty of low bowing deference... <BR> <BR>How low will Obama go? in his efforts to admit that the US is no longer the great superpower it once was. <BR> <BR><a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html" target=_top>http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11 /obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html</a> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by john8verse32 on November 15, 2009)
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Offline
<b><font color="0000ff">no defense, but plenty of low bowing deference...</font></b> <BR> <BR>Is it possible to bow and yet keep one's edge? If so, there seems to be a political advantage to bow. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
Offline
Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be viewed as a war crime. Looks like Obama did the right thing. Whether you are a president or not, you should never defent crime.
Offline
The concept of a "War Crime" is odd. The devastation of the two nuclear bombs was horrendous. Why didn't Japan surrender after the first bomb? Did it take two "war crimes" to bring peace? Why was Japan fighting in the first place? Between bomb one and bomb two, it seems that Russia declared war on Japan. <BR> <BR>Was the carpet bombing of Germany a war crime? <BR> <BR>Did Japan, or Germany, commit war crimes of their own? <BR> <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
Offline
The deliberate targeting and killing of civilians whether it is in New York City, Bosnia, Dresden, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki can only be described as terrorism and war crimes. 18 United States Code Section 2441 defines as a war crime: <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">The act of a person who intentionally kills . . . one or more persons taking no active part in the hostilities . . .</font> <BR> <BR>The statute exempts deaths defined as collateral damage. However, the whole idea of the attacks I mentioned above, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was to kill a large and shocking number of civilians. <BR> <BR>I think Truman was right that many thousands of American lives were saved. That does not make the bombings less of a crime. <BR> <BR>Yes, the Japanese and Germans committed war crimes of their own. Many of those crimes were prosecuted. Ours were not, because we won.
Offline
my dad was a USArmyAirForce pilot during WW-2.... <BR>first as pilot of B-17 and -24's, then later as b-29 captain over japan. <BR> <BR>He told me that over and over, American air crews were subjected to high risk because of the requirement that they bomb only in daylight, to increase "precision", and that civilian areas were not directly targeted at any time that he knew. This as a result of our American "morality", tho this same feeling was not applicable to the British who themselves had been carpet bombed in civilian areas by the Germans. <BR>The brits flew at night, and dropped bombs without precision, often just over lighted areas, presumably cities. <BR> <BR>In the Japan air war, up until Curtis LeMay became in charge, the B-29's were operated at high altitude, again with precision targeting of only military targets. But the Japanese had dispersed their military factories and facilities within city limits, and often there would be collateral damage from even the best precision of the targeting. <BR> <BR>But this was not as effective as the president and the war staff wanted, and Gi's were still dying in large numbers. And when Okinawa proved very hard to take, as the last major stepping stone before an invasion of the Japanese homeland itself, we lost so many soldiers, ships to kamakazis, and airmen that when the bomb was ready, it is understandable why it was used. and according to then and later calculations, the bombs actually saved hundreds of thousand s <BR>of American casualties which would have resulted from an invasion of the Japanese main islands. <BR> <BR>In an irony, even Japanese calculations have tended to indicate that Japanese lives were saved too.... half a million or more would have died in the final battle to save the Emperor...that is why the US did not directly bomb him, hoping he would overrule the Army Generals and stop the war...which he tried to do after the first bomb, but the generals only capitulated after the Fat Man 2nd bomb. <BR> <BR>Personally? had I been in command? I might have ordered the first bomb to be expended as near the Emperors residence as possible, without actually killing him...as a demonstration, followed by leaflets that the rest of Tokyo was next....but Tokyo by then had already been reduced to paper ashes by LeMays firebombing trying to get their attention. <BR> <BR>My dad flew 18 hr missions in unarmed B-29's as photo and weather recon and pathfinder.... leaving China at 3-4 AM, flying to Japan to arrive at early morning, and report on weather, take morning pix from high altitude of potential targets, then retreat out of range of flax and Zeros, and wait for hours for the bombers to arrive, then return and take pix, to assess the effectiveness, then finally late afternoon, return toward China, sometimes arriving and landing in the dark on poorly prepared dirt runways with campfires to mark the positions!!! <BR> <BR>But he assured me that they always did their best to target military installations, unlike the Japanese who massacred civilians as readily as the military. <BR> <BR>with todays laser or GPS guided bombs, and especially the TV guided ones, they can put the bomb thru the chosen window of the building , instead of carpet bombing an area to reach a specific target. But the precision and effectiveness of the bomb itself is dependent on superb and precise intel that the right window has been chosen.... <BR> <BR>and like the military underground complex bombed in the Gulf air war which was supposed to destroy only military? intel had not known that civilians had also used the underground facility to hide from the bombing... so the USAF's direct hit also killed civilians. <BR> <BR>however Saddam had personally ordered the targeting of civilians ...just like AlQueda did with the terror bombing of the NYC twin towers. <BR>Does that make US better than them??? <BR> <BR>but tit follows tat, and after the Brits were carpet bombed , in the night, over London, they responded in (unkind) kind. <BR> <BR>The US homeland was never carpet bombed, so we tried to use precision daylight bombing instead, and suffered many more casualties than we needed while trying to maintain the moral high ground.
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Offline
"War is hell", who said it: <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>Most authors have first attributed Sherman's statement, "War is Hell" to his presentation at the Ohio State Fair in 1880. The following account was published in the History of Oakland County regarding Sherman's address to the cadets of the M.M.A. <BR> <BR>Eyewitness, Dr. Charles O. Brown, said that , 'the reason the reporters missed the famous statement, and later denied that it had been made, was that the reporters rushed away as soon as Sherman started reading his long, technical speech. But before he sat down, the General suddenly said, ‘Cadets of the graduating class’ – the students arose and saluted – and then changed it to ‘Boys,’ making this statement: ‘I’ve been where you are now and I know just how you feel. It’s entirely natural that there should beat in the breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the skill you have acquired here. <BR> <BR>‘Suppress it! You don’t know the horrible aspects of war. I’ve been through two wars and I know. I’ve seen cities and homes in ashes. I’ve seen thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the skies. I tell you, war is hell!’ The reporters had missed the biggest story of the day. Brown, seated alongside Sherman, wrote down the speech verbatim." The Enquirer and News (Battle Creek) 18 November, 1933. <BR> <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.mi5th.org/warishell.htm" target=_top>http://www.mi5th.org/warishell.htm</a> <BR> <BR>Typical of the press to run of with THEIR story.
Offline