Monkeys know Right from Wrong say scientists

neal · 02-18-09 12:36 am

Our relatives, contrary to theistic conceit, seem to have a moral sense. Did the jewish/christian god create them on the 6th day right after Adam? Does God need to save other primates?<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:From The Sunday Times February 15, 2009 Monkeys have a sense of morality, say scientists MONKEYS and apes have a sense of morality and the rudimentary ability to tell right from wrong, according to new research. In a series of studies scientists have found that monkeys and apes can make judgments about fairness, offer altruistic help and empathise when a fellow animal is ill or in difficulties. They even appear to have consciences and the ability to remember obligations. The research implies that morality is not a uniquely human quality and suggests it arose through evolution. That could mean the strength of our consciences is partly determined by our genes. Such findings are likely to antagonise fundamentalist religious groups. Some believe the ability to form moral judgments is a God-given quality that sets humans apart. The scientists say, however, that the evidence is clear. “I am not arguing that non-human primates are moral beings but there is enough evidence for the following of social rules to agree that some of the stepping stones towards human morality can be found in other animals,” said Frans de Waal, professor of psychology at Emory University in Georgia in the United States. In papers at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) this weekend de Waal described experiments on monkeys and apes to see if they understood the idea of fairness. The animals were asked to perform a set of simple tasks and then rewarded with food or affection. The rewards were varied, seemingly at random. De Waal found the animals had an acute sense of fairness and objected strongly when others were rewarded more than themselves for the same task, often sulking and refusing to take part any further. Another study looked at altruism in chimps - and found they were often willing to help others even when there was no obvious reward. “Chimpanzees spontaneously help both humans and each other in carefully controlled tests,” said de Waal. Other researchers, said de Waal, have found the same qualities in capuchin monkeys, which also show “spontaneous prosocial tendencies”, meaning they are keen to share food and other gifts with other monkeys, for the pleasure of giving. “Everything else being equal, they prefer to reward a companion together with themselves rather than just themselves,” he said. “The research suggests that giving is self-rewarding for monkeys.” Related research found primates can remember individuals who have done them a favour and will make an effort to repay them. De Waal, who has written a book called Primates and Philosophers, said morality appeared to have evolved in the same way as organs such as the eye and the heart, through natural selection. The debate over whether animals can tell right from wrong and make moral choices dates back to Charles Darwin, originator of the theory of evolution. He suggested that when sexual reproduction first evolved it forced animals to develop codes of behaviour that became built into their genes. In humans these instincts developed into a sense of right and wrong. This fitted with his view that humans were derived from animals - a view fiercely opposed by the church at the time. The big question now is why, alone among the primates, humans have developed morality to such a high level. It implies that humans were once subjected to some kind of powerful evolutionary pressure to develop a conscience. Some researchers believe we could owe our consciences to climate change and, in particular, to a period of intense global warming between 50,000 and 800,000 years ago. The proto-humans living in the forests had to adapt to living on hostile open plains, where they would have been easy prey for formidable predators such as big cats. This would have forced them to devise rules for hunting in groups and sharing food. Christopher Boehm, director of the Jane Goodall Research Center, part of the University of Southern California’s anthropology department, believes such humans devised codes to stop bigger, stronger males hogging all the food. “To ensure fair meat distribution, hunting bands had to gang up physically against alpha males,” he said. This theory has been borne out by studies of contemporary hunter-gatherer tribes. In research released at the AAAS he argued that under such a system those who broke the rules would have been killed, their “amoral” genes lost to posterity. By contrast, those who abided by the rules would have had many more children. Other studies have confirmed that the strength of a person's conscience depends partly on their genes. Several researchers have shown, for example, that the children of habitual criminals will often become criminals too - even when they have had no contact with their biological parents.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article5733638.ece" target=_top>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/ article5733638.ece</a>

john8verse32 · 02-18-09 8:00 am

This Monkey's Gone to Heaven Thursday, February 19, 2009 <a href="http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/article.cfm?aid=11817" target=_top>http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/article.cfm?aid=118 17</a> He finally snapped. quote: Travis, a 14-year-old chimp "owned" by Sandra Herold of Stamford and used as a mascot for her towing company Desire Me Motors, attacked a 55-year-old woman Monday, leaving her with serious injuries. Police were called to the scene, and when the 200-pound animal lunged at them, they fled to their cruiser. One officer was forced to shoot the chimp when he tried to open the cruiser's doors. Wounded, Travis retreated into the Herold home. He left a trail of blood on the path to his room, which had been outfitted with ropes to swing on and a zoo cage to sleep in. There, he died. Stamford Police Capt. Richard Conklin told the Connecticut Post the woman suffered severe injuries and an officer was being treated for "shock and trauma." There had been warning signs. In 2003, Travis — who had been lent to Coca-Cola and Old Navy for TV commercials — let himself out of an SUV after a teenager threw something at him. He then ran around Tresser Boulevard for about two hours as police tried to get him back into SUV. On the morning before his death, Travis had stomped on cars outside his home and Herold fed him tea laced with Xanax to calm him down, according to the CT Post. Travis had lived with Herold almost his whole life. The highly trained chimp used the toilet, dressed himself, ate at the table, took baths on his own, brushed his teeth, went on to the Internet to look at pictures and watched TV using a remote control, according to the Stamford Advocate. So a creature whose brain is hard-wired to expect jungle wilderness, a top spot in the animal kingdom and the occasionally tryst of (literal) hot monkey sex had to live the same stupid, crappy life we all do — except that his vocation was riding in tow trucks and occasionally acting peppy for the sake of Coke or Old Navy. No wonder he had to be placated with benzodiazepines and was prone to road rage. Sandra Herold did not violate any Stamford animal law by keeping Travis in her home (or subjecting him to all those other indignities) but we'd hope a law wouldn't be needed, that it would be common sense not to take a wild thing out of the wild. And if you do, send it to a zoo. .... As we live out our days of keeping up modest hygiene habits, commuting to pointless jobs, watching bad TV and looking up stupid stuff on the Internet, we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that a lifestyle thousands of Americans have embraced could still constitute cruelty to animals. end quote

george · 02-18-09 10:49 am

Some researchers believe we could owe our consciences to climate change and, in particular, to a period of intense global warming between 50,000 and 800,000 years ago. So why are we doing battle against global warming. This kind of change would we welcomed these days. I say bring it on!

elaine · 02-18-09 6:14 pm

Travis simply didn't want to marry Sandra (so far, it is not legal--yet, Connecticut being a backward state). So he got his revenge. She got tired of simply "shacking up" and wanted to legalize the arrangement, and perhaps she had kept all the money he'd received from commercials. He ain't talkin'.

john8verse32 · 02-18-09 6:26 pm

(Message edited by john8verse32 on February 18, 2009)

roca · 02-18-09 6:37 pm

MONKEYS and apes have a sense of morality and the rudimentary ability to tell right from wrong, according to new research. So do my dogs, even my cats seem to. Funny that this came out and there is currently the news about a chimp that attacked its owners after being their pet for many years. Of course this may just mean that there are psycho killer chimps also. Hmmm I wonder if I can get a grant for that idea, must be part of the stimulus package somewhere.

bob_2 · 02-19-09 5:07 am

"Bad Dog" will elicit a response that will give as cimilar feeling of intelligence in dogs. Wonde what percent of dog DNA is similar to ours, and whether it is important. You think they might be a distance cousin, like the apes are suppose to be?

bob_2 · 02-28-09 11:15 am

They say we all came from a monkey But I say that theory is bunky Because as anyone knows Who talks with creationist pros That some people are closer to donkey.

admin · 03-16-09 12:17 am

<a href="http://redapes.org/zoos/study-belligerent-chimp-proves-animals-make-plans/" target=_top>http://redapes.org/zoos/study-belligerent-chimp-pr oves-animals-make-plans/</a>

bob_2 · 03-16-09 4:05 am

With the chimps and possibly others of their relatives, the biggest puzzle, is if 95% of the DNA is similar to humans, why the hair and their inability to speak??? Do Human and Chimpanzee DNA Indicate an Evolutionary Relationship? <a href="http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2070" target=_top>http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2070</a>

john8verse32 · 03-16-09 11:46 am

just wondering.... what if EGW was right about that "amalgamation" theory? (ggg) <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/16/814.jpg" alt=""> <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/16/815.jpg" alt="">

bob_2 · 03-16-09 2:14 pm

I consider EGW irrelevant, so I guess I am tbe wrong person to answer this possibly, rhetorical question. Until EGW is squarely in the devotional catagory, that is my position on her.

cadge · 03-16-09 6:24 pm

Regarding Travis: "On the morning before his death, Travis had stomped on cars outside his home and Herold fed him tea laced with Xanax to calm him down,..." Betcha he'd just discovered the falacies of tithing and the Investigative Judgement, and it set him off. See if that woman he attacked was his sabbath school teacher.

john8verse32 · 03-25-09 9:40 am

Bird-brain parrots = smarter than apes!!!! this parrot notices a baby choking, and cries for help, speaking English!!! saving the baby!!! <a href="http://news.aol.com/article/parrot-red-cross-award/393941" target=_top>http://news.aol.com/article/parrot-red-cross-award /393941</a>

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