Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

elaine · 05-12-09 9:54 pm

Renie, it's been too long! But coming up--in 4 years I'll have a teen granddaughter.

bob_2 · 05-13-09 12:47 am

At two, they aren't potty trained and they don't call it the terrible twos for nothing, although, not every kid has that phase as my oldest daughter showed me at two, although they all go through the potty training, which is a pain, IMO.

neal · 05-13-09 8:42 am

Potty training.... We used the technique in this book for both our children. I trained our son in half a day. No stress. Feel sorry for those that go through the old way so we give this book to every new parent we know. <blockquote>THE CLASSIC GUIDE USED BY MILLIONS OF PARENTS! MAKE TOILET TRAINING A TOTAL SUCCESS -- IN ONLY A FEW HOURS! From two noted learning specialists, here is the amazing, scientifically proved Azrin-Foxx method that teaches toilet training quickly -- in less than four hours for the average child. And after that rewarding learning period, he or she will willingly use the toilet without assistance or a reminder! Also inside is a wealth of information on related topics, including: • Unexpected benefits -- your child's newfound pride and independence can increase eagerness to feed and dress him- or herself, and improve responsiveness to parental instruction • Pre-training techniques every parent should know• Bed-wetting problems -- and how this method can help end them • Happy children, happy parents -- how mastering toilet training benefits the whole family, increasing parents' personal time and deepening the parent-child connection. With more than 2 million copies sold, TOILET TRAINING IN LESS THAN A DAY is the one guide you'll need to make this significant transition a rewarding and pleasurable experience -- for both you and your toddler! About the Author Nathan H. Azrin, Ph.D., is the father of four children and a leading authority on the psychology of learning. He received his Ph.D. from Harvard University, was a research associate at the Boston University School of Medicine, and has been a lecturer at Harvard's Psychology Department. The former editor of the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis and the Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior, he has published more than 100 studies in the field of learning and psychological treatment.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Training-Less-Than-Day/dp/0671693808" target=_top>http://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Training-Less-Than-Day/dp/0671693808</a> <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/5/1236.jpg" alt="">

elaine · 05-13-09 1:24 pm

From Amazon reviews: "One caveat: The book is written for training children with well-developed cognitive abilities and motor skills (the book recommends about 2-1/2 for girls, 3 for boys). If you need to train your child at a younger age, this book may not work for you - because children develop at different rates, the book gives has a readiness test to help you evaluate if your child has the skills necessary to successfully complete the training." The old question: who is being "trained," the parent or child or both? Also, until the child is "ready" (which is not chronological age), it will not work. I've heard of less than 6 months' babies being potty trained, but having raised 3, I'm very skeptical of that age as being "trained."

neal · 05-13-09 2:37 pm

That is correct. There is a list of questions and when the child can do a set of simple tasks (like go to your room and return, pull your pants down and pull them back up) then train them. Worked for our children.

renie · 05-13-09 11:12 pm

I'm getting to the age where I may need to be potty trained again. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> Remember I said I wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls. renie

renie · 05-13-09 11:13 pm

How'd we get off on this subject???? I think it's my fault! <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> renie

bob_2 · 05-15-09 12:23 am

Yeah, it is a long way back to "Jesus Saves not the Bible" from "Potty training". Let's try this to get back on track, listen to the author's video and see a review of the book "Jesus Interrupted". <a href="http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780061173936&WT.mc_id=PBAN_OOZE_JSINT_021309" target=_top>http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn= 9780061173936&WT.mc_id=PBAN_OOZE_JSINT_021309</a>

cadge · 09-14-09 11:25 am

Elaine, on tues 5/5/09, on this thread, you shared: Some cite 1 Cor. 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" alluding to 2 Maccabees 12:44, "for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death, whereas if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who make a pious end, the though was holy and devout. This was why he had this atonement sacrificed offer for the dead, so that they might be released from their sin." <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=5&post=4774#POST4774" target=_top>http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?t pc=5&post=4774#POST4774</a> I have come to believe that the term "batized for the dead" is to mean that as anyone is baptized they are representing the going into death at the end of our lives, the first death, until the resurrection, represented by the coming up out of the water. It's a type, not just the dying to self and being ressurected in newness of life by the Spirit now, before we physically expire. 2 Maccabees 12:44 seems to be saying that our prayers can be effective for the dead to be released from their sins. Do you think that this is meant in the purgatory type of way as if the dead are conscience and in a waiting place? Was it believed that there was an "atonement sacrificed" that provided for such a situation? I would appreciate you opinion on this, if you would please. Cadge

elaine · 09-14-09 12:26 pm

I can honestly say I have formed no opinion on these texts, and they were used only to show that there are conflicting ideas within Scripture and to be adamant about any specific ideas about death and the afterlife is pure speculation. The Mormons could be right; the Catholics could be; the Adventists could be. GOK

cadge · 09-14-09 4:14 pm

OOPS, "conscience" should be conscious. Thank you Elaine. Maybe Don has an opinion. I'm going to move this subject to another thread.

don · 09-14-09 10:14 pm

Maybe Don has an opinion. Let's consider how people explain this passage: KJV 1 Cor. 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" NASB 29 Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? Notice this explanation:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mention by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced. Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we.2 This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were. Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead? <a href="http://www.carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/what-baptism-dead-mentioned-1-cor-1529" target=_top>http://www.carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/what- baptism-dead-mentioned-1-cor-1529</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> According to this view, Paul acknowledged that proxy baptisms took place. Even people who take part in proxy baptisms believe in a resurrection. There is no foundation here for building a doctrine of proxy baptisms. This is the only canonical passage on the topic. An interesting news item. The Mormons baptized someone for Obama's deceased mother just prior to the election.<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:ABC News has confirmed reports that Mormons posthumously baptized President Obama's mother five months before the election. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints confirmed Tuesday afternoon that someone improperly, posthumously baptized the late mother of President Obama into the Mormon faith. Last June 4 -- the day after then-Sen. Obama secured enough delegates to win the Democratic presidential nominee -- someone had the president's mother Stanley Ann Dunham, who died in 1995 of cancer, baptized. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/mormons-baptized-obamas-m_n_197707.html" target=_top>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/mormons-b aptized-obamas-m_n_197707.html</a> <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Adventists for Tomorrow

Announcement

#76 05-12-09 9:54 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#77 05-13-09 12:47 am

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#78 05-13-09 8:42 am

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#79 05-13-09 1:24 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#80 05-13-09 2:37 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#81 05-13-09 11:12 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#82 05-13-09 11:13 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#83 05-15-09 12:23 am

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#84 09-14-09 11:25 am

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#85 09-14-09 12:26 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#86 09-14-09 4:14 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

#87 09-14-09 10:14 pm

Re: Jesus Saves, Not the Bible

Board footer