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#1 11-17-09 1:07 am

don
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

1833 meteor shower's effects are seen to this day in religion

01:19 PM PST on Monday, November 16, 2009

By DAVID OLSON
The Press-Enterprise

    The Leonid meteor shower makes its annual appearance tonight, and it's expected to be mediocre at best. You'll probably see a few sporadic streams of light through the sky.

    But imagine multiplying those streaks of light by the tens or even hundreds of thousands. And transport yourself back to 1833, before anyone knew that meteors -- commonly known as shooting stars -- are tiny particles of comet debris that illuminate when they slam into the Earth's atmosphere.

    What would you have thought when you saw what appeared to be tens of thousands of stars falling from the sky? You might have thought it was the end of the world.

    Many people did.

    The Leonid meteor shower on the night of Nov. 12-13, 1833, was so spectacular that it helped lead to the founding of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which now has about 17 million members worldwide and is a major presence in the Inland area.

    It also was a key reason that scientists began believing that the "falling stars" were an astronomical phenomenon, not an atmospheric event as many had thought.

    Story continues below



    Illustration from “Bible Readings for the Home Circle,” 1888, courtesy of sdapillars.org
    In 1833, the intense Leonid meteor shower helped spark a religious order. The illustration is from 1888.

    Observers of the meteor shower wrote that the 3 a.m. sky was almost as bright as broad daylight.

    "A tempest of falling stars broke over the Earth ... " said 19th century astronomy writer Agnes Clerke, according to a NASA history of the Leonids. "The sky was scored in every direction with shining tracks and illuminated with majestic fireballs."

    Clerke estimated that 240,000 meteors were visible during nine hours. Others wrote about the celestial event.

    "The whole heavens seemed in motion and suggested to some the awful grandeur of the image employed in the Apocalypse," reads an 1888 Adventist book, Bible Readings for the Home Circle.

    The book alludes to several New Testament verses that predicted "the stars shall fall from heaven" before the world would end and Jesus would return.

    Many Christians in 1833 already were looking out for signs of Jesus' return, said Jon Paulien, dean of the School of Religion at Loma Linda University, a Seventh-day Adventist institution.

    The scriptures also predict a great earthquake, a day when the sun would be darkened and a time when the moon would turn red. All of those events occurred in the decades leading up to 1833.

    "They're saying one sign left, stars falling from heaven," Paulien said. "When that comes, it's confirmation.

    "It's a reasonable assumption," he said. "A less scientific era would put more spiritual interpretation on events like this."

    The 1833 Leonids led some Christians to begin preparing for the return of Jesus. When that didn't occur as predicted in the 1840s, some concluded that the meteor shower and other signs were God's way of trying to lead people to search for a greater understanding of the Second Coming, also called the Second Advent, Paulien said.

    Those who founded the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863 were among those who took the 1833 meteor shower as a sign of the end of the world, Paulien said.

    The Adventist church teaches followers to be prepared physically in addition to spiritually for Christ, which is why institutions such as Loma Linda University -- one of the country's only exclusively health-science universities -- and the university's medical center were founded, Paulien said.

    'ROCKS FROM SPACE'

    The 1833 meteor shower also had a lasting effect on science. Until then, many scientists theorized that meteors emanated from Earth's atmosphere.

    "They certainly weren't thinking about rocks from space," said Don Yeomans, a senior research scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.

    As scientists in 1833 observed thousands of lights shooting out from the same point in the sky, they concluded that there must be an astronomical explanation, he said. Scientists later discovered that the rock particles were comet remnants that the Earth passes through each November.

    Some scientists believe the 1833 meteor shower may have been the largest in modern history. But spectacular shows still occur.

    Ralph Megna, chairman of the Riverside Astronomical Society, said the 2001 Leonids were one of the most amazing astronomical events of his life. He was in Landers, in the remote San Bernardino County High Desert, which because of its altitude and distance from city lights offered among the best views in the Inland area.

    "You were seeing a meteor every second or two," Megna said. "It was sort of like the special effects from Star Wars."

    Reach David Olson at 951-368-9462 or dolson@PE.com

    METEOR SHOWer

    To get a rough estimate on how many meteors per hour are expected to be visible in Southern California tonight and early Tuesday morning, go to leonid.arc.nasa.gov/ estimator.html. The NASA "fluxtimator" estimates that the largest number of meteors -- no more than about eight per hour in the best viewing spots -- will be visible just before dawn Tuesday. But Don Yeomans, a senior research scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, believes there could be a greater number visible about 1 a.m. Tuesday. The best viewing on the globe will be in Asia this year.

    For the best viewing, go to dark areas as far from city lights as possible. High-altitude, remote spots are best. Make sure to stay outside for at least 15 to 20 minutes, to get your eyes accustomed to the darkness. Look up into the eastern horizon, toward the Leo constellation, from which the Leonids get their name.

    A higher number of meteors are expected to be visible in Southern California next month, during the annual Geminid meteor shower. Members of the Riverside Astronomical Society will view the Geminid meteors on Dec. 11, 12 and 13 at the Goat Mountain Astronomical Research Station, near the High Desert town of Landers. Nonmembers are invited to attend. The largest number of meteors is forecast for the night of Dec. 13. For more information, go to www.rivastro.org.

    SOURCES: NASA; Don Yeomans, of JPL; Riverside Astronomical Society

    http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/st … 1f9a3.html

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#2 11-17-09 8:56 am

john8verse32
Member
Registered: 01-02-09
Posts: 765

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

....could this mean that the SDA church grew (in part at least) out of astronomical heights of scientific ignorance and religious superstition?

maybe that's why the church doesn't want to change now, since what worked back then, still has inertia today.


If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#3 11-17-09 12:21 pm

cadge
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 288

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

No matter how you view it, it doesn't make the event any kind of proof of SDAism being the remnant church. It only shows a coincidental relation to biblical end time events from which any denomination can refer to, should they choose, to make this to be one of the fulfillments.

However:
Revelation 6:13 says "The stars of heaven fell UNTO THE EARTH (none fell "to the earth"). It says "even as a fig tree casteth her UNTIMELY FIGS when she is shaken of a mighty wind. The 1833 Leonoid shower was not untimely, as the Leonoids come on a regular schedule in Nov.


And then again:
Joel 2:10 says "the stars will withdraw their shining". That didn't happen.
Ezekiel 32:7 says "I will cover the heaven and make the stars thereof dark".

So, wata ya gonna do?

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#4 11-17-09 1:00 pm

cadge
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 288

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

I "borrowed" this from a story on the Leonoid event of 1833:

"We may learn of this that, when men are in a high state of excitement, their testimony must be taken with many grains of allowance. I heard of a few who professed religion under the influence of these lights. In that day, for the sinner under conviction to be able to say that he had seen a light, whether he had heard a voice or not, furnished a ready passport into almost any church in the land. I suppose the reformation produced by these meteors was like the appearance of the meteors themselves -- of very short duration. I have no faith in any repentance grounded upon objects of sense. The gospel only is the power of God unto salvation. Love to God and hatred for sin, only can work a permanent change in the life of a man; and nothing short of this can be trusted as permanent in its effects."

The rest of the story can be seen here:

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast22jun 99_2.htm

Cadge

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#5 11-17-09 10:53 pm

jag
Member
Registered: 10-01-09
Posts: 89

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

Since we now for certain know that the stars of heaven do NOT fall unto the earth, should it mean that the book of Apocalypse can finaly be laid to rest? Instead of forced interpretation of modern evens as though predicted in this book, we should admit that it simply referred to the times of Nero and Domitian, and is not really abut the future.

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#6 11-18-09 8:58 am

don
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

jag wrote:

we should admit that it simply referred to the times of Nero and Domitian, and is not really abut the future.

The movie "Apocalypse" portrays the Apostle John on Patmos. There he experiences his visions. Back in Ephesus, a slaughter of Christians takes place. The vision portrayed at this point in the movie is the fifth seal; i.e. the souls under the altar crying out, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?".

Groups that interpret Revelation have been categorized into four types. Preterist, Historicist, Futurist and Idealist. (one I just discovered from dictionary.com is Presentist: Someone who believes that the prophecies are being fulfilled right now, with that, there are five types.)

   1. The Preterist points to the times that the prophecy was written and shows how they are about the times of the writer.
   2. The Historicist, Adventists and a few others, view the prophecies, especially the 7 Churches, 7 Seals, and 7 Trumpets, as descriptions of Church and World history from the time of Christ to the present and on to the end of time.
   3. The Futurist points to the end of time events, usually a devastating seven years tribulation, for most of the prophecies fulfillment.
   4. The Idealist finds principles in the stories and believes they can be applied in every age. These principles help understand the conflict between right and wrong, good and evil.

Apocalypse, IMO, should be viewed as a pageant; a musical, if you will. Because it has strong poetic statements, the believer can apply these features to his or her world. For example, the persecution found in the second church Smyrna lasts for ten days. The persecution of the early church was periodic. One of the most severe was from the emporer Diocletian. From 303 to 313 Christians suffered. These ten years have been noted, by Adventists, as connected to the ten days in the prophecy.

All dealings with the prophecies are interpretive and thus not canonical. I think we should encourage creative interpretations and not take things quite as dogmatically as we have in our past history. "Consider this..." should be my approach rather than "I know exactly what this means..."

The prophecies of the Apocalypse should inspire us to study history, the Bible, to consider the grand issues of the Gospel and its conflict with the world. And, to look forward to God's final resolution to it all.

(Message edited by Don on November 18, 2009)

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#7 11-18-09 1:41 pm

john8verse32
Member
Registered: 01-02-09
Posts: 765

Re: Leonid Meteor Shower, 1833 and Tonight

good post, Don....

but don't forget that along with our study of history and the Bible, we should also study astronomy, to learn whether or not Orion is an actual wormhole in the sky, now known to be about 1,600 light years away, but beyond or thru which God is sposed to be hammering out McMansions for those 144,000 virgin guys standing in a perfect square, 379.47 guys per side as explained by His most recent works of "revelation" by those with the never ending profitesse motivation.

in that regard, shouldn't we also ask the SETI project and NASA infidel scientists to direct their antennae and the HST to look for "tall, majestic people living without sin", presumably on Jupiter?

as well as for the "dome" up there in the sky holding all that water just beyond those windows in the sky?


Oh, ya...lets not forget the study of geology for the heretics among us to keep looking for the pillars holding up the earth, and peering into volcanoes and earthquakes for that underground burning coal divinely revealed in print but not yet in practice.

speaking of pageants and musicals...
doncha think that the tale of Joshua's lost day might be best explained that way? as the Epic of Jassur? then scientists would stop laughing at us?

maybe also the story of Jonah surviving underwater inside a whale for daze so long before Jacques Cousteau made it possible might also qualify for the "new concept"???

maybe also the tale of God standing by and watching the Olde Debil kill Job's kids in a divine wager? and failing to intervene to help his "good and faithful servant"??

how bout Baalams talking donkey? go..no..don't go...go..no, don't go.

What about Eves sneaky snake, telling her presumably in Hebrew the truth that she would not die that very day, the opposite of what God had told her??? btw, who was right? God? or the talking snake? she didn't die that day,which is what God had told her she would do!!!

musta been a lotta theatre around those old campfires for tribal education motivation and entertainment....before the invention of TV.

could this new concept of understanding some of the ancient stories also free us from a vengeful God massacring everybody in a flood for which there is today no good scientific evidence or philosophical justification?
..."I'm SORRY I made them"....

could extension of such a concept exculpate God from the horrendous Nazi-like murder of Egypts innocent kids?

what a great concept!!!

that a lot of what we once took as literal, might actually just have been morality plays, theatre, musicals, pageants....campfire stories...exaggerations...hallucinations...
"borrowings"....maybe even stories made up to present and support some idea or concept...

such as that God had told them they could steal the silverware from the Egyptians on their way out, just like the Clintons would later justify,
despite the divine command to not steal.

I think we've got it!!!

can I come back down, now?

Edited by Admin on 8/23/10


If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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