James White's Adventism

don · 07-22-09 8:17 am

James White's Adventism Today's Adventism is not the same as that of the early pioneers of the movement. This should come as no surprise, things change, develop. Not everything gets better and its not all downhill, either. As I study the writings of James White, I am impressed with his centrist views. Adventism tends to be quite varied. Some from the near extreme right appear to be defining Adventism while others from the "liberal left" quietly worry about those on the right taking over the church. Imagine a church focused on the commandments of God and faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. All other doctrine takes a lesser place. The IJ doesn't get mentioned much at all. Now, imagine a church which invites another sabbatarian denomination to be delegates at the General Conference session complete with speaking and voting privileges. Imagine that this church instructs its ministers to not compete with this other sabbatarian denomination in evangelism. If they are already established in a town, the church should move on to evangelize a different town. Does this sound like the Adventist church you know? It sure came as a surprise to learn that this was James White's Adventism in the 1870's. The other denomination is the Seventh Day Baptist. Some early, undisciplined professed Adventists treated the SD Baptists terribly. James White led the way in attempting to right those wrongs. Here is one of Elder White's articles summarizing his thinking. I have highlighted sections that interest me:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:THE TWO BODIES. THE RELATION WHICH THE S. D. BAPTISTS AND THE S. D. ADVENTISTS SUSTAIN TO EACH OTHER. <a href="http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18761012-V48-15/index.djvu?djvuopts&page=4" target="_blank">Review and Herald, October 12, 1876, p. 116</a> ON the broad platform of the (1) divine law, and (2) redemption from its transgression through the death and mediation of the divine Son, both the Seventh-day Baptists and the Seventh-day Adventists stand in general agreement. Here are the great tests of the Christian life, and a fitness for Heaven; and besides these there are no others. (3) The principal difference between the two bodies is the immortality question. (4) The S. D. Adventists hold the divinity of Christ so nearly with the trinitarian, that we apprehend no trial here. And as the practical application of the subject of the Gifts of the Spirit to our people and to our work is better understood by our S. D. Baptist brethren, they manifest less concern for us on this account. But the views which both bodies entertain respecting free investigation and the right to personal opinion forbid any restriction whatever to be laid upon each other in the proper advocacy of the sentiments in which both cannot at present agree. We recommend, however, that there be no controversy between the two bodies. The differences between us are of such a nature, and we have in common so broad a field of labor with those who differ with us respecting the fundamentals, upon which hangs the destiny of a world lying in wickedness, that Seventh-day Adventists and Seventh-day Baptists cannot afford a controversy on doctrines which neither regard as tests of Christian character. Both bodies have a specific work to do. God bless them both in all their efforts for its accomplishment. The field is a wide one. And we further recommend that Seventh-day Adventists in their agressive work avoid laboring to build up Seventh-day Adventist churches where Seventh-day Baptist churches are already established. If ministers or members from the Seventh-day Baptists regard it their duty to come with us, under the impression that they can serve the cause of God better, we shall give them a place with us. But we see no reasons why there should be any effort put forth on the part of our people to weaken the hands of our Seventh-day Baptist brethren in order to add to our numbers from those who were before us in revering the ancient Sabbath of the Lord. If it please our Seventh-day Baptist brethren, let the interchange of courtesies in the appointment of delegates be continued, and be conducted in a manner to secure mutual benefit. The visits of the worthy delegates from the Seventh-day Baptists, Pres. Allen, Elders Wardner, Burdick, Rogers, Hull, and Prof. Whitford, have done our people good. And if the delegates from our people to that body, Elders Andrews, Smith, Canright, and others, have failed to do that people good, it has been from want of ability and a knowledge how to work out that good which was in their hearts to do. What God in his wise providence has marked out for these two bodies in their future labors and destiny, the future alone can unfold. But whatever that may be, it seems a certainty to us today, while looking with faith and hope toward that untried future, and cherishing a filial love for those whose history of loyalty to High Heaven stretches across long centuries, that no good can result to either from controversy and proselyting, and no harm can come to either from those courtesies and labors of love calculated to build each other up on our common faith. We do not say that we have seen the proper relation between the two bodies as clearly and joyfully as we do today; neither do we wish to be held responsible for what some of our people have done, or may do, not in harmony with the foregoing. But that our settled convictions on the subject for more than five years may be understood, we quote from our report of the Clear Lake (Wis.) camp-meeting, which appeared in REVIEW AND HERALD for July 4, 1871 :— ” At the close of the Sabbath morning service, we were cordially greeted by many who reported themselves Seventh-day Baptists, who gave our hand the very next thing to it, if not the real Advent shake. Among these was Prof. Cornwall, of the Albion, Wis., S. D. Baptist Academy, who invited us to speak to the citizens of his place. Nothing could have given us greater pleasure than to have responded to this, and similar courtesies by speaking freely to this people upon the great fundamentals of our common faith—the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ; but hoarseness, fatigue, and the labors of the Minnesota Camp-meeting the next week, compelled us to pass on without even calling on any of our S. D. Baptist friends. “Here we may, by divine grace, enjoy a strong union ; and while Seventh-day Adventists may prize very highly, and tenaciously hold, their views upon the immortality question, and may cherish as important to the glory of God and their own prosperity, their definite views of the manifestation of spiritual gifts, they will agree that it will be much better to seek for that union that may be enjoyed upon the broad fundamentals of our faith, than to sacrifice that union in urging upon the Seventh-day Baptists sentiments peculiar to Adventists.” We are happy to say here that a full statement of our views and feelings, outlined in this article, was given by the writer before the recent General Conference of the S. D. Baptists, which apparently met with a full approval from that body. It is with great pleasure that we look back to the happy hours spent with that good people, and only regret that we could remain no longer with them. j. w. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

bob · 07-22-09 10:09 am

"Today's Adventism is not the same as that of the early pioneers of the movement. This should come as no surprise, things change, develop. Not everything gets better and its not all downhill, either." And here I thought that the reason God gave Ellen the job of prophet was to keep the little flock on the straight and narrow path. She was to reveal error and to be the final say in creating doctrine and "present truth." Should anything need "change" with prophet Ellen at the helm? Are you now saying that it was a wise thing to allow the Seventh-day Baptists, who had/have false doctrines, not to be challenged. Was it because the SDB had the Sabbath truth that it was OK to allow them to continue without the aid of the prophet? Would it be parallel to say that because I know Jesus as my Savior and trust in Him and have not the prophet I am OK and don't need to be proselytized into the "present truth"? Ellen had harsh words for anyone outside her camp. Evidently James didn't take her council to heart.

don · 07-22-09 10:50 am

Ellen had harsh words for anyone outside her camp. Evidently James didn't take her council to heart. Most of the harsh words were early on, I think. Ellen was a mere teenager when she experienced the Great Disappointment. Her reactions to most situations can rightfully be considered immature. Would it be parallel to say that because I know Jesus as my Savior and trust in Him and have not the prophet I am OK and don't need to be proselytized into the "present truth"? Yes, so long as you were obeying God. Early Adventism had just two tenets: Keep the Commandments of God and Hold to the Faith of Jesus. If you were intentionally sinning against God you would need someone to call you to repentance; prophet or otherwise. Was it because the SDB had the Sabbath truth that it was OK to allow them to continue without the aid of the prophet? "Both bodies have a specific work to do. God bless them both in all their efforts for its accomplishment." James White's thinking on the Gift of Prophecy was quite sensible, too, IMO. Notice that he said once the SDB's understood their practical application of the Gift of Prophecy they "manifest less concern" on the matter. James White's Adventism was less focused on Ellen White than we are today. He truly depended on the Bible for his views. For the Adventists in his day, EGW did not micromanage their Bible study. He knew his wife. He protected her from her own tendencies toward extremism, I think. She helped him. She protected him from overwork and consoled him when others were critical. .

bob · 07-22-09 4:22 pm

"He knew his wife. He protected her from her own tendencies toward extremism, I think. She helped him. She protected him from overwork and consoled him when others were critical." Consider Ellen's dream gleaned from CARM. It seems that Ellen didn't stop James from doing too much. It would appear that James death was caused from over work. "A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty. [Notice Ellen White specifically stated she was asking God for direction and information.] In the night I dreamed I was in the carriage, driving, sitting at the right hand. [Ellen White believed this dream came from God and contained the very information she had just asked God to reveal to her – as we shall see.] Father was in the carriage, seated at my left hand. He was very pale, but calm and composed. [Ellen White generally used the term "Father" when speaking about her husband James White. James had died on August 6, 1881 – just five weeks before Ellen White wrote this letter to her son on September 12, 1881]. ‘Why, Father,’ I exclaimed, ‘I am so happy to have you by my side once more! I have felt that half of me was gone. Father, I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back to me again, and we work together as we used to?’ "He looked very sad. He said, ‘The Lord knows what is best for you and for me. [Notice in this "divinely inspired" dream, Ellen White is having a conversation with her dead husband – something the Lord said in His Word is "detestable" and worthy of being "stoned to death." Worse, dead James White pretends to speak for the Lord and advises Ellen about her duty!] My work was very dear to me. We have made a mistake. We have responded to urgent invitations of our brethren to attend important meetings. We had not the heart to refuse. These meetings have worn us both more than we were aware. Our good brethren were gratified, but they did not realize that in these meetings we took upon us greater burdens than at our age we could safely carry. They will never know the result of this long-continued strain upon us. "‘God would have had them bear the burdens we have carried for years. Our nervous energies have been continuously taxed, and then our brethren misjudging our motives and not realizing our burdens have weakened the action of the heart. I have made mistakes, the greatest of which was in allowing my sympathies for the people of God to lead me to take work upon me which others should have borne. Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings, as has been the case in the past. [Notice that here dead James White predicts the future for his wife, Ellen, and advises her on what she should do – remember, this advice is coming from a dead man in her dream!] But lay this matter before God and make no response to the most earnest invitations. Your life hangs as it were upon a thread. You must have quiet rest, freedom from all excitement and from all disagreeable cares. We might have done a great deal for years with our pens, on subjects the people need that we have had the light upon and can present before them, which others do not have. Thus you can work when your strength returns, as it will, and you can do far more with your pen than with your voice.’ "He looked at me appealingly and said, ‘You will not neglect these cautions, will you, Ellen? Our people will never know under what infirmities we have labored to serve them because our lives were interwoven with the progress of the work, but God knows it all. I regret that I have felt so deeply and labored unreasonably in emergencies, regardless of the laws of life and health. The Lord did not require us to carry so heavy burdens and many of our brethren so few. [Dead James now gives Ellen a wonderful opportunity to chastise the "brethren" for shirking their duties and thereby working him to death. Remember, all this comes to her in one of her "divinely-inspired" dreams as she communicates with her dead husband! Read on as dead James continues advising Ellen.] We ought to have gone to the Pacific Coast before, and devoted our time and energies to writing. Will you do this now? Will you, as your strength returns, take your pen and write out these things we have so long anticipated, and make haste slowly? There is important matter which the people need. Make this your first business. You will have to speak some to the people, but shun the responsibilities which have borne us down.’ [Dead James’ advice is very clear, telling his wife what to do as well as what not to do.] "’Well,’ said I, ‘James, you are always to stay with me now and we will work together.’ [Here Ellen makes a pact with dead James – he will always stay with her, and they will work together! This a pact with a dead man! But it gets worse. Read on.] "Said he, ‘I stayed in Battle Creek too long. I ought to have gone to California more than one year ago. But I wanted to help the work and institutions at Battle Creek. I have made a mistake. Your heart is tender. You will be inclined to make the same mistakes I have made. Your life can be of use to the cause of God. Oh, those precious subjects the Lord would have had me bring before the people, precious jewels of light!’ "I awoke. But this dream seemed so real. Now you can see and understand WHY I FEEL NO DUTY TO GO TO BATTLE CREEK for the purpose of shouldering the responsibilities in General Conference. I have NO DUTY to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough." Letter 17, 1881, pages 2-4 (written to W. C. White, September 12, 1881), the White Estate, Washington, D.C., March 25, 1980. (You may verify this letter in Arthur White’s book Ellen G. White, The Retirement Years, pages 161-162, or go to the Ellen White Estate web site and search for any key phrase in the letter.)

bob · 07-22-09 4:30 pm

Question Don. If Ellen's actions were immature were her visions also immature? Was her angel immature? I will be glad to show you some of her early visions that she later denied having because they were immature. Actually they were completely false and she later wanted to gloss over them.

bob · 07-22-09 4:44 pm

"Yes, so long as you were obeying God. Early Adventism had just two tenets: Keep the Commandments of God and Hold to the Faith of Jesus. If you were intentionally sinning against God you would need someone to call you to repentance; prophet or otherwise." How would you describe the commandments of God? Are they just the 10 or do they also include all of the Torah? I believe Paul when he said that Christians are not under the Schoolmaster law and when we accept Jesus as our Savior He gives us the Holy Spirit as our guide, not the tables of stone. What other command did Jesus give us Christians to live by? Yes, the Law of Love, the Royal Law. If I love my fellow man I will not kill, steal, etc. That is the command that we who are Christians are under. The Torah law with its 10 ended at the Cross.

elaine · 07-22-09 4:50 pm

Bob, you asked the question I was thinking: If EGW's visions were "immature" and she changed them, are they not all still compiled in her writings without dates? IOW, if some of the visions have been "corrected" and are now obsolete, how is the ordinary person to determine that?

bob · 07-22-09 4:51 pm

"Both bodies have a specific work to do. God bless them both in all their efforts for its accomplishment." Why do SDAs believe all other Christian churches are of the devil and God won't bless them because they won't accept the Sabbath. Maybe James did not consider Sabbath observing churches in the same boat with the pagan Sunday worshipers.

elaine · 07-22-09 4:59 pm

States ranked by rates of pregnancy among women age 15-19 (pregnancies per thousand): 1.Nevada (113) 2.Arizona (104) 3.Mississippi (103) 4.New Mexico (103) 5.Texas (101) 6.Florida (97) 7.California (96) 8.Georgia (95) 9.North Carolina (95) 10.Arkansas

bob · 07-22-09 5:07 pm

We can Elaine. Researchers have documented her original "visions". We have both the originals and the "made overs". The only way we can know for sure about her visions concerning the Bible are to go to the source, the Bible. Concerning her other visions we had to wait them out and see if they pass the test of time and new knowledge. We know they have not, so we know that she was a false witness. Today Adventists have an uphill battle trying to defend her. Too much has leaked out. The vault should have been sealed off so that no one could ever enter it. Even then there are dusty old SDA books, pamphlets and other material in attics waiting to be discovered. The hill will get steeper.

don · 07-22-09 5:49 pm

Adventists have an uphill battle trying to defend her. I don't view it as a battle, or a defense at all. Step one, for me, is to acknowledge the facts. Step two is a willingness to examine her profession of faith in Jesus in the context of the facts. Step three is to be willing to explain why her writings still maintain my regard. .

elaine · 07-22-09 5:49 pm

Yes, devoted researchers can determine the dates, but for the poor average lay person who reads her as "divinely inspired" what happens when her earlier statements contradict her later ones and there isn't a clue when written?

don · 07-22-09 6:00 pm

What happens when her earlier statements contradict her later ones and there isn't a clue when written? Maybe we should examine a few examples. Do you have any? I believe that the Adventist church should routinely seek to enlightened their members on all matters about Ellen White. Getting the dates right seems to be an important early task. Some of us are actively involved in helping do just that. I suggest that Ellen's visions, and her reporting of them, progressed over time. All we have are her reports of the phenomena. .

elaine · 07-22-09 7:16 pm

No, but I wasn't the one who first mentioned it. Someone mentioned her earlier visions where when she was young and immature.

george · 07-22-09 10:55 pm

So... are we interested in how Ellen White changed over her lifetime? Who cares - those messages were supposed to have been straight from God, and God's word isn't supposed to change with Ellen White's maturity. If God told her we should be keeping the Sabbath from 6PM to 6 PM when Ellen was a teen, then how would that have changed as she became more mature, when suddenly, we're calculating from sundown to sundown? This is obviously an over-simplification, but you get my point. Are we to understand that Ellen White, herself, had some contribution to make to what God was saying, so that the more she became involved in this, the better her visions became? I thought the big deal was that she was picked because she had no education to speak of - a clean slate. Even at age sixteen when I first heard about Ellen White, I thought it was strange that since everybody is able to read and have Bibles, why would there need to be a intermediary. It sounded kinda Catholic to me at the time. But hey, what did I know. Well, now I know. I think I'll stick to the primary source.

bob · 07-23-09 8:25 am

Exactly Sirje, Who needs a "lessor light" when we have the brightest Light. Can one even see a weak light when a bright light is placed over it?

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