Stories of the Pioneers

don · 01-25-09 4:55 am

James White's Father - Freedom from Bigotry This story is an amazing account of Christian love and forebearance. James White's father offered both the opening and closing prayers at the Baptist meeting which disfellowshipped him:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:His (James White's father) religious experience, of more than sixty years, has been marked with firmness and zeal, and yet with freedom from that bigotry which prevents investigation and advancement, and shuts out love for all who seek to worship God in spirit and in truth. At the age of twenty-one he was sprinkled, and joined the Congregational church, but never felt satisfied that in being sprinkled he had received Christian baptism. Several years later, a Baptist minister came into that new part of the State and taught immersion. My father was immersed and became a Baptist deacon. Still later he embraced the views held by the Christian denomination, which were more liberal and scriptural than those of the Calvanistic Baptists of those days, and communed with that people. The Baptists called a special meeting. The minister and many of the church members were present. The minister invited several to open the meeting with prayer, but each in his turn wished to be excused. He waited. Finally, my father opened the meeting. They then excluded him for communing with the Christians. The minister made an effort to have some one close the meeting. No one moved. My father closed their meeting with prayer, and left them with feelings of love and tenderness. He soon joined the Christian church, and served them as deacon nearly forty years. <a href="http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc=moa;idno=ajk1999.0001.001;frm=frameset;view=text;seq=10;page=root;size=s" target="_blank">Life Incidents, pages 10-11</a>.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Note James White's family heritage of love for all who seek to worship God in spirit and in truth. It seems that over the years, many Adventists have lost this generous attitude toward others of faith. .

bob_2 · 01-25-09 1:13 pm

Don, weren't Baptist's considered Christian's in that time?

elaine · 01-25-09 9:07 pm

Don, just curious: have you read "Christianity and Homosexuality: Some Seventh-day Adventist Perspectives"? It should be in the library of every SDA educator and pastor as they all will be, if not already, confronted with this situation. Stories told are true and interesting how some pastors and principals treated gay SDA children and young people.

don · 01-26-09 7:39 am

Don, weren't Baptist's considered Christian's in that time? Yes. The term "communing with the Christian" meant with the "Christian denomination", probably what has come to be called the Christian Connection. .

don · 01-26-09 8:26 am

Don, just curious: have you read "Christianity and Homosexuality: Some Seventh-day Adventist Perspectives"? No. I agree that I should. One of my colleagues announced he was gay while preaching to his home church. He was much loved by the congregation. He no longer was asked to preach, or take leadership in the church but they did not remove him from membership. Another family, close friends of mine; their daughter is gay. The parents came from a conservative, yet loving, Adventist background. After long discussions with their daughter, they changed their perspective on the issues. To continue the spirit of John White (James' father), the mistreated gay believer would offer the opening and closing prayer at the meeting voting to dismiss them. I have limited acquaintance with the Adventist gay community. I wonder if there are any among them who take the lead much like John White did. (The difference between being a "victim" and being a "thought-leader". On the other side of the picture, a dean of boys, another acquaintance of mine; it was revealed years later that he was gay and preferred young boys. The human race is a mess. . (Message edited by Don on January 26, 2009)

tom_norris · 01-26-09 11:45 am

All SDA's must be very careful when it comes to understanding the Pioneers. Why? Because the White Estate and the church has promoted much propaganda and falsehood over the years. Especially when it comes to Ellen White. For example, all SDA's have been taught that as a child and teen, Ellen White was sickly, even disfigured. They made much of the fact that she was uneducated and could not even read the scriptures. Such an emphasis is calculated to make her appear as if she were a living miracle, chosen and raised up by God to do a great work. And this may be true, but something is very wrong with this well-known historical view. The fact of the matter is this; it was James White that had far worse problems as a child and teen. It was James White that was far more responsible for the development and growth of the SDA church than was his wife, which he managed and published. But the White Estate thought it was their mission to elevate and embellish Ellen White to the place where history was turned upside down, and myth took over. So the apologists suppressed or fabricated one point after another in order to promote Ellen White in a dishonest and incorrect manner. Listen to James White: My parents say I was an extremely feeble child. And, what added greatly to my difficulties, and cut off their hopes of my life, when less than three years old, I had what the doctors called worm fever, resulting in fits, which turned my eyes and nearly destroyed my sight. I am reported to have been extremely cross-eyed-not naturally, but from affection of the nerves-a feeble, nervous, partially-blind boy. These are sufficient reasons why I could not enjoy the common advantages of school. And not until I was sixteen years old, when my health and strength greatly improved, and my eyes became quite natural, could I read a single verse in the Testament without resting my eyes. Life Incidents, pages 12, 13. Who has ever heard about James White's childhood problems? Who ever knew that James White was essentially blind as a child unable to read or go to school until he was 16 years old? Few thought he could do anything in life but become an illiterate farmer, if he lived that is. Moreover, James White was far more important and critical to the formation of the SDA church than was his young wife. His story is more compelling than hers, even as it parallels her story in many ways. Although he was sickly, blind, and uneducated, he struggled to overcome an almost impossible set of circumstances before finding his religious calling. That of creating a new denomination that focused on eschatology. Here is some more from James White: At the close of that term I had conquered all the Arithmetics within my reach, was regarded as a good grammarian, was prepared to teach penmanship, and was told by my preceptor that I could fit for college in one year. My thirst for education increased, and my plans were laid to take a college course and pay my way, if labor, economy, and study would accomplish it. I had but little else to thank but God and my own energies for what advancement I had made. At Reedfield I wore old clothes, while my class-mates wore new, and lived three months on corn-meal pudding prepared by myself, and a few raw apples, while they enjoyed the conveniences and luxuries of the boarding house. Life Incidents, page 14 The story and accomplishments of James White surpasses that of Ellen White in almost every way. What a pity that this great man has been ignored and overshadowed by the manipulated and fabricated story of White Estate. What a shame that the history of the SDA church has been so comprised and distorted, that the Adventist Community knows very little about their true history. This is why there are so many myths and legends in the church that pass for facts. This is why everyone thinks the IJ is in the 1st Angels Message when neither James White, nor anyone else ever said such an absurd thing. Thus, the repetition of error and falsehood has become official doctrine for the SDA church. How pitiful is that? If James White were alive today: He would walk, (limp,) into the General Conference and the Review, --that he started, and condemn most everything and everyone. So too would his wife. They would both so hotly condemn all the leaders and their confused and dishonest doctrines, that you would see people jumping out the windows trying to escape their wrath. Because the White Estate has no windows, James White would personally chase Jim Nix and anyone else that dared challenge his authority up the stairs and out of the building. Both James and Ellen White would condemn most everything that the SDA church teaches today, even as they would specifically repudiate Arthur White, and demand that the White Estate immediately correct the record with tears of repentance. They would also both demand that 1888 and Glacier View be overturned and that the Denomination enter into a period of genuine repentance and reform. I have studied James White over the years. He was a genius. Too bad that the church he developed has gone corrupt. Very corrupt. How sad and unnecessary. I hope this helps those that want to honestly understand Adventist history, Tom Norris for Adventist Reform

renie · 01-26-09 3:56 pm

Tom, I'm usually very bored reading Adventist Church history, but your post was very interesting. I had no idea James was the big influence in the starting of the church. Also didn't know of his sad childhood. He has to be respected for what he was able to overcome. I do hope you were writing tongue-in-cheek regarding what Ellen and James would do at the General Conference and Review. Ellen's habit of denouncing people in public was, in my opinion, very unkind and unproductive. No one ever changes when they are demeaned. I would hope the Whites would sit down, listen, and work patiently with anyone they disagreed with. Personally, I think most of Ellen's personal letters to people should have been burned. renie

elaine · 01-26-09 8:04 pm

Don, I've already read nearly half of the book recommended. There is also a DVD accompanying it with the personal stories told by several parents of gay children. The first parents are a LLU medical graduate who was a classmate of my husband, and his wife is the eldest child of HMS Richards. In the book, it reveals that this couple had two gay children, both HMS' grandchildren. It is a very sad, but true descriptions of the extreme treatment usually given homosexuals, especially by Christians. The book is an anthology of many SDA professionals, including a psychiatrist who was an academy classmate of my oldest daughter. I can't recommend it too highly for opening the eyes of ALL Christians, and especially those who must minister to children, parents, and families who are faced with this situation--something that no one can be blamed for, or held responsible for anymore than one can choose her sex. The church has been terribly behind in recognizing medical science on this; and especially a church which has been prominent in medical work for nearly a century.

don · 01-27-09 9:07 am

Whoops. Wrong Thread. There is no delete "button" for such mistakes. (Message edited by Don on January 27, 2009)

tom_norris · 02-14-09 1:31 pm

Irene Longfellow said: Tom, I'm usually very bored reading Adventist Church history, but your post was very interesting. I had no idea James was the big influence in the starting of the church. Also didn't know of his sad childhood. He has to be respected for what he was able to overcome. The White Estate has embellished Ellen White to the point of absurdity. They made her out to be someone she never was, and then indoctrinated generations into believing their outrageous myths and fabrications. Now that Tom Norris has caught them, they remain in hiding unable to defend what they have done, but unwilling to confess and repent. This is not going to end well for them, because what they have done is a crime. The White Estate is not above the law or the facts. They have perpetrated a massive fraud on the Adventist Community as well as the public. It will not stand. They are running out of time. I remember many years ago being surprised when I discovered that James White was the mastermind and genius behind the rise and progress of the SDA church. Not Ellen White. In fact, because I had been so indoctrinated by the White Estate, I was stunned to see that whenever James and Ellen White traveled to raise up churches, that he spoke first, and she was relegated to speak later. In other words, James White was in charge, and his wife Ellen was subordinate to him in every way possible. After all, it makes perfect sense; for this was long before women could vote, much less do much of anything. It was a man's world, and James White took full advantage of this fact. He was a remarkable and tough man, one that few SDA's know. He even had a more dramatic story of childhood disease then Ellen white, and it was a miracle that he ever lived past childhood, much less that he could start reading clearly. But of course the White Estate ignored this fact so that they could elevate Ellen White above James White, and give her the more dramatic story. Thus the simplest facts of history seem strange to those of us that have been subjected to the fraud of the White Estate. We have all been so brainwashed by the church that it is tragic. Thanks to the White Estate, most all of what we have been taught about Ellen White and Adventism is wrong, wrong, and wrong. Irene said: I do hope you were writing tongue-in-cheek regarding what Ellen and James would do at the General Conference and Review. Absolutely not. If you think so, you don't know James White or his wife. James White was legendary for his hard language and hard charging ways. Those that crossed him would not soon forget it. I can assure you that he was a no nonsense executive that would have broken Arthur White in half for what he has done. Irene said: Ellen's habit of denouncing people in public was, in my opinion, very unkind and unproductive. James White was far tougher then was his wife. The fact that no one knows this is because the White Estate has been fabricating their own version of SDA history. They thought it was their duty to re-write Battle Creek history, when they had no such dishonest duty. Everyone needs to stop assuming that they understand either James or Ellen White. They don't. All they know is the nonsense that the White Estate has promoted over the years. Few have any idea of the facts. Irene said: No one ever changes when they are demeaned. I would hope the Whites would sit down, listen, and work patiently with anyone they disagreed with. Ha! James White would laugh in your face for such a position. Neither he nor Ellen White would have been patient with anyone that had so defamed them and the Fundamentals of the Advent Movement. And who can blame them? Arthur White has ruined, not only Ellen White's reputation, but also that of the Advent Movement. This evil man, and all those that supported him, deserves to be posthumously condemned and repudiated in the most hash language. This is what still must be done. Irene said: Personally, I think most of Ellen's personal letters to people should have been burned. Nonsense. It is Arthur White who will be burned in hell for what he has done. And so too, all those that have supported his fraud of Traditional Adventism. Everyone needs to demand that the White Estate repent and correct the record. If they refuse, they will be forced to do so anyway. So either way, they are caught for all to see. I hope this helps, Tom Norris, who knows what Arthur White has done

maggie · 02-14-09 1:58 pm

It is Arthur White who will be burned in hell for what he has done. How do you, personally, feel about Arthur White burning in hell, Tom? If God singled you out for the privilege of serving Him by lighting the fire to burn Arthur White, would your faith be sufficient for the task? <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=5&post=1765#POST1765" target="_blank">Abraham</a>, the Father of the Faithful, no doubt, would be more than willing to light the faggots to burn Arthur White, or anyone else God designated for death, including Ellen White, Desmond Ford or Mother Teresa.

maggie · 02-14-09 3:16 pm

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:From a journal, January 27, 1944: On a roundabout way to have lunch I witnessed the public shooting of twenty-eight Poles on the edge of a playing field. Thousands line the streets and the river. A ghastly pile of corpses, all in all horrifying and ugly, and yet a sight that leaves me altogether cold. The men who were shot had ambushed two soldiers and a German civilian and killed them. An exemplary modern folk-drama.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Alice Miller: Once feelings have been eliminated, the submissive person functions perfectly and reliably even if he knows no one is going to check up on him....<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Don, I don't want to take this out of the parameters of stories of the Pioneers, but Tom is insisting that those who mess with the stories of the Pioneers deserve to be burned, indeed will be burned (how, I wonder, does he know?), and I didn't want to let that pass unmentioned. Killing people ourselves or "commissioning" God to do it for us on our whim seem tightly related, to me, FWIW. The Lake of Fire: an exemplary future folk-drama...? ...for those beyond all human feeling, i.e., The Saved??? (Message edited by maggie on February 14, 2009)

tom_norris · 02-15-09 12:12 am

Maggie Bockmann said: How do you, personally, feel about Arthur White burning in hell, Tom? It is sad that anyone must suffer such a fate. It is even more distressing that such a revered leader in the church could become such a great liar and con man. Rev. 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” I met with Arthur White, he was a delusional and stubborn man; arrogant, proud, and angry that anyone would dare question his authority or word. All that seek truth must repudiate him and Traditional Adventism, as well as Glacier View. Maggie said: If God singled you out for the privilege of serving Him by lighting the fire to burn Arthur White, would your faith be sufficient for the task? What an absurd and stupid question! There is no such "privilege" nor any such "task" or "faith." Why do you pretend otherwise?

maggie · 02-15-09 12:18 am

God commissioned His Chosen People to wipe out whole groups of people, down to the children and livestock. But, as I said, that isn't the thread topic.

tom_norris · 02-15-09 4:06 am

Maggie Bockmann said: God commissioned His Chosen People to wipe out whole groups of people, down to the children and livestock. War and the use of force were developed in heaven, before being exported to earth. Such things are an extension of the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan. Make no mistake. Both sides have set out to destroy the other. So be careful what side you choose. 1John 3:8 The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. Be thankful that you don't live in the Old Testament era. There we would all have to do many things that would seem barbaric to us today. Even carrying out the Judgments of God on his enemies. Those in the New Covenant enjoy a more civilized, and much easier, entrance into the Kingdom of God. But even so, many forfeit Eternal life because they do not take the Gospel Story seriously or correctly. Matt. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. Matt. 7:14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Had it not been for those that went before, paving the way with blood, there would have been no Nation of Israel, no Messiah, and no Gospel. So the OT was necessary. It was part of God's Gospel plan. I suggest that you find your place in the Gospel Story. You need to make sure that you have found the proper path that leads to Eternal Life.

george · 02-15-09 7:08 am

Tom, If Christian principles are to have any validity, we can't say that God needed to manipulate history through the sinful tendencies of man in order for His plan to work. It might be more accurate to say that God used the mess created by the OT crowd to work His purposes in the end - making the best out of a bad situation.

maggie · 02-15-09 12:12 pm

...making the best out of a bad situation. Somehow, I think the Creator of the universe is more resourceful than to have to resort to the unmitigated violence of burning billions of people alive, in the end. That makes the phrase "Prince of Peace" ironic, if not meaningless. The communists achieved "peace" through brutality. Bottom line, I think better of God. Sorry, Don. I'm done now....

tom_norris · 02-15-09 12:34 pm

Sirje Walkowiak said: Tom, If Christian principles are to have any validity, we can't say that God needed to manipulate history through the sinful tendencies of man in order for His plan to work. It might be more accurate to say that God used the mess created by the OT crowd to work His purposes in the end - making the best out of a bad situation. Sin, aggression, and War started in heaven. Not in the OT. Consequently, God needed to "manipulate," and control, his enemy before we were involved. He took action to repel the rebels, who then exported their rebellion here on earth. Once here, God has been actively opposing his enemy, intervening in the affairs of mankind so he could send his Son to become one of them and save them. Thus the OT recounts how God set up Judaism and did many other things in order to manipulate world history. So God needed to manipulate history, and the Bible clearly shows him doing just that over and over again. This is not wrong. This is what God does. This is his job. In fact, his OT manipulations become even more spectacular in the NT because here God sends his Son, in human flesh, to save them. Such manipulation caught the universe off guard, and so too the Jews and the Devil. The point here is that God is actively and purposefully manipulating everything possible, and it is foolish to think otherwise. Thus the development of OC Judaism came from the mind of God, just like the NC church. Neither was an afterthought, but the premeditated plan of God. Gal. 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. Eph. 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, Eph. 3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; Eph. 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Eph. 3:7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. Eph. 3:8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, Eph. 3:9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; Eph. 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. Eph. 3:11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, The same God of the OT is the God of the NT. It was the Gnostics that claimed otherwise. But the Church correctly refuted that popular position that still prevails in the minds of many today. Thus there is Judgment in both the Old and New Covenants. In fact, the final Judgment Day is a NT event, even though it looks and sounds very OT. So God is not standing on the sidelines. No. He is actively manipulating a Celestial War on this Earth so that he can win. Those in the NC era still go to battle, but it is on a higher level of cognition, with eternal life and death on the line for all. Eph. 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. Eph. 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Do not misunderstand; God is setting up Nations and working his will in the world, and woe to those that stand in his way. The challenge for the SDA's is to fall inline with God's plan and to better understand Gospel Eschatology. Woe to those that claim to be on God's side, like the Jews or the SDA's, but are in fact betraying Heaven and all that it stands for. Let the SDA's consider the history of the Jews before they continue their Gospel rebellion. See God in action. Read the Bible and see him manipulate things for his purposes. Gen. 17:5 “No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I will make you the father of a multitude of nations. Dan. 2:20 Daniel said, “Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, For wisdom and power belong to Him. Dan. 2:21 “It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding. In conclusion, God is actively interfering and manipulating things on earth. So too is his enemy. We are caught between these two mighty forces. We must chose one or the other. We must actively, consciously, and correctly, embrace the Gospel Story. Or not. We are all free to choose our fate and work out our own destiny. Phil. 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Phil. 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. There is nothing left to chance in the Gospel Story. God will win the Day because he deserves to win. Not because he is more powerful, which he is, but because he has proven to the on looking Universe that his ways are in their best interest. To follow God's enemy, and embrace his sinful worldview is a horrible proposition to any rational thinking creature. No doubt things looked differently long ago, but the history of sin has so repulsed the universe, that Satan has discredited and ruined himself. Who in their right mind would want such a creature in charge? Thus God has made his point with the Gospel Story, even as the Devil has lost all Celestial support for his Coup. He is doomed and so too all those that refuse to embrace the loving God of the Gospel Story. Does this help?

billdljr · 09-03-09 2:40 am

Speaking of some of the pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism. Bob and Don Sands would probably enjoy doing a Google search of "Dr. W C Sands" there is a picture of him giving a stop smoking lecture in 1953. His wife Ruth is also mentioned as giving a talk on Florence Nightengale. These two great people were real pioneers. Bill Diehl

Adventists for Tomorrow

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Stories of the Pioneers

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