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<b><font color="ff0000">Thanks to Atomorrow</font></b> <BR> <BR>At a study group I attend, one of the participants seeks to recast our conception of God without the violent portrayals of the Hebrew Bible. I like where he is going with this, but feel that he needs to hear the other side of the argument. That is my job, I figure, since no one else has come forward. <BR> <BR>So, at one point, he turns to me and says he has a question for me. (At that point, I say to myself, "Fire away. This can't be as hard as discussions at atomorrow." ) <BR> <BR>He asked his question. My answer came easily. (I credit our discussions here at atomorrow for the ease I experience facing questions now.) I hesitate to assert that God gave me my answers; though, He probably did. <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>This forum provides a wonderful training ground for the developing of ideas. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
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Don, now we're curious: How did you explain the violent and capricious God so often depicted in the Hebrew Bible (especially the earlier portion) with the description of Jesus in the earlier NT books, who is later declared to be God by writers in the last of the first century? <BR> <BR>Can the relevant time of either the Hebrew Bible and the NT illustrate a gradual change by later writers? Wouldn't this be consistent with an anthology written by many, rather than a single book with only one author? IOW, should we even try to claim consistency describing God in the entire Bible?
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<b><font color="0000ff"> How did you explain the violent and capricious God so often depicted in the Hebrew Bible... should we even try to claim consistency describing God in the entire Bible?</font></b> <BR> <BR>I can't quite remember the wording of my friend's question. Essentially it was, "If God walked beside you and said, 'Obey me or I'll destroy you,' would you call Him your friend?" <ol><li>I have learned to distinguish between the portrait of God in the Hebrew and NT Bible and that of God by Classical (Christian) Theology, i.e. The God of Love. Classical Theology provides a systematic study of God. <LI>We examined Numbers 18 and the 'wrath of God' mentioned there. <LI>We looked at Revelation 16 and the plagues. My friend wants to move us to the conception of God as only a God of Love. He calls it the view of God found in Christ. I want to do the same, but... <LI>(My friend is a very accomplished church leader; pastor, former conference president, chaplain, etc. This quest of his has occupied his theological thinking for some time now. ) <LI>The view of God in Christ certainly stresses the heavenly Father's love. Consider the story of the prodigal son. But there are other stories, with a severe edge in the Gospels, as well. <LI>The plagues of Revelation 16 provide a defense for God's people who have come under attack in Revelation 13. And the Trumpets of Revelation 8 and 9 come as an answer to the cry of the souls under the altar in Revelation 6. <LI>All these severe actions of God come as a defense of His people. <LI>I see this protective nature of God as a theme of the Scriptures from start to end. <LI>The Hebrew Bible seems to divide between the older, more primitive view of God and the later more ethical and moral view of God in the later prophets. <LI>The New Testament writings continue this later view of God. <LI>The whole of Scripture comprises the canon of the Christian church(es). I may struggle with certain conceptions of God, but the canon is my canon as well as that of the Church. So, I must learn to live with it, work within it, struggle with it, and explain how it fits my larger view of God.</li></ol> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Don on November 22, 2009)
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There are those who say that God gets blamed for everything that happened in the OT. Satan is only mentioned on a couple of times. <BR> <BR>Religious people have always used God to get what they want. Is it possible that God's people used God as their way of getting what they wanted? Is it possible that Satan was the one behind the awful things that happened that God got the credit for? Just wondering......
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Christians need the Devil to explain everything they see as evil or bad. <BR> <BR>Historically, Satan was never mentioned by Bible writers until they "discovered" him in Persian beliefs introduced first by Zoroaster who first introduced a belief in Good or Evil, Light or Darkness, a dualism that had not previously been part of the Jewish belief. Prior to that time, in the Bible, both good and bad were caused or introduced by God: He brings both good and evil. <BR>After the Exile, the Jewish writers adopted this belief and in writing their texts Satan is adapted in place of God.
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Irene, <BR>Another way of saying it might be to say that the Hebrews saw God as directing their plans and actions (as in battle) and when things didn't go well, they felt God was chastising them for something they failed to do. This still goes on today when something that is prayed for doesn't materialize just as expected. A common cry when things go bad still is "What did I do to deserve this?" I'm sure the Hebrews found a few reasons why God wasn't blessing them at such times. this would also account for the outrages demands to kill and pillage the Hebrews attributed to God.
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<font color="0000ff">I see this protective nature of God as a theme of the Scriptures from start to end.</font> <BR> <BR>then do you deny things like the following? or are you just embarrassed by how God sometimes shows his love!!! <BR> <BR>21:4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. <BR>21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. <BR> <BR>21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. <BR> <BR>and to cure the snake bit victims, God encouraged them to cast a brass idol...a snake on a pole. <BR> <BR>is this the same God who called Olde Abe to leave Harren, Turkey, next to a year round river, where to this day there would never be any famine thanks to irrigation which God could have showed them, no? instead, He leads them to decamp to the dry dusty hills of judea - where Abes descendants would later have to move again...because their God could not or would not help them overcome the drought? <BR> <BR>but the good news: along this other river, they had no drought to worry about, but He let them become slaves in Egypt...and finally decided to help them leave after 400 or so years of slavery. <BR> <BR>Wouldn't a "protective God" have helped his favorite people sooner than that? <BR> <BR>does this rise to the level of "protective nature of God " as proposed?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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