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Thought I would start a thread on this conference that will or is or has already happened at Andrews University on homosexuality and reparative therapy: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2009/10/15/conference_keynoters_hold_homosexual_change_%E2%80%9Cnot_impossible%E2%80%9D#comments" target=_top>http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/20 09/10/15/conference_keynoters_hold_homosexual_chan ge_%E2%80%9Cnot_impossible%E2%80%9D#comments</a> <BR> <BR>You may notice as you read, a slight imbalance given by David Larson, LLU Christian Ethicist. Comments anyone on the article or comments?? About the only comment I would Ditto, is the one by Tom Zwemer.
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bob2, I'll talk to you later about " Conference Keynoters Hold that Homosexual change is Not Impossible" ( you say something to Tom Zwemer, what was it?)
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Here's what Beth said: A proposal:
1) Given that there can certainly be a case made that the Bible says practicing homosexuality is a sin (though I, personally disagree with that conclusion), and;
2) Given that we are all sinners, and;
3) Given that a church must decide which sins must be held accountable to the community and which sins can be left up to the individual and God and;
4) Given that traditionally (and reasonably) those sins which are directly and strongly damaging to others and/or self are those which the church family has every right to take action against (i.e. child molestation) - while those that are less harmful and/or difficult to pinpoint like greed or abuse of the planet are not subject to church discipline and;
5) Given that the church has been fairly inconsistent about following the above guidelines, showing a much stronger reaction to homosexuality then is warranted given the harm caused versus say obesity and;
6) Given that the church can maintain a position that a certain behavior is not officially desirable without taking additional steps to discipline those engaging in it (like overeating);
I propose the following:
The church continue its official stance that practicing homosexuality is not part of God's design. However, the church also agrees that while it may not be ideal, it is between the person and God how they will deal with their homosexuality. The church can certainly continue to condemn promiscuity, abusive and exploitive relationships gay or straight, but can agree that seeking a stable loving relationship with a person of the same sex is not cause for discipline any more than being overweight is. The church does not have to officially sanction it but it need not single out those practicing it either.
(I apologize for my analogy - I don't think being gay is like being overweight but for purposes of movement in the right direction, treating it like gluttony would be wonderful.)
Sun, 10/18/2009 - 09:46
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Beth ? make an absurd comparison. There are many personal choice she can get crazy with, but the issue of Homosexuality is claimed by some to be an orientation born with. Not too many overweight people will claim that.
My belief is it is a choice usually fallen into when relationships fail, or one is encourage when one feels better one way than another. Feeling good or comfortable is not the way sin is judged good or bad, is it????
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" There are two paths you can go by But in the long run there’s still time to change the road you’re on.”
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This article that I cite is very enlightening on the topic, here is an excerpt:
The American researcher Dean Hamer published research that seemed to prove that homosexual orientation could be genetically transmitted to men on the x chromosome, which they get from their mothers. However when this study was duplicated it did not produce the same results. A follow-up study which Hamer collaborated on also failed to reinforce his earlier results.8
Subsequent research published by George Rice and George Ebers of the Universty of Western Ontario has cast doubt on Hamer's theory. Rice and Ebers' research also tested the same region of the x chromosome in a larger sample of gay men, but failed to find the same 'marker' that Hamer's research had found.9 Claims that the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus is influential in determining sexual orientation, have yet to be substantiated.10 It is generally thought that biological explanations of sexuality are insufficient to explain the diversity of human sexuality.11 12
http://www.avert.org/being-gay.htm
Last edited by bob_2 (01-29-12 7:51 pm)
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Another excerpt from this article:
“How can science tell you what I am? I mean I've had boyfriends, and was happy with them, had girlfriends and may have boyfriends again for all I know. If it's a gay gene what's going on? Is it just turning itself on and off in my head? It doesn't feel like biology it feels like love.”Jo
Psycho-social explanations offer a variety of factors that could contribute to the development of a person's homosexuality. For example, a female dominated upbringing in a gay man's past, with an absence of a male role model. Others stress adherence or deviance from conformity to gender roles, and individual psychological makeup.13 While none of these factors alone completely answers the question 'what causes homosexuality?', they rule out some things. For example, lesbian and gay young people are not 'failed' heterosexuals. Also, homosexual partners are generally of the same age proving wrong the assumptions that young people are 'turned gay' by older people.
What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values. Later on these beliefs may be shaped by pleasant and unpleasant experiences of sex and also shape their choice of activities and partners. Throughout their life a person's sense of who and what they are has a strong impact on their sexual development and experience.
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Note Joel Osteen's view on whether you can be healed of Homosexuality:
Joel Osteen: Maybe Gays Will Stop Being Gay ‘If We Will Love Them’ Enough
By Igor Volsky on Oct 27, 2011 at 10:02 am
Mega church leader Joel Osteen reiterated his belief that being gay is a “sin” during an interview with the Washington Post’s Sally Quinn, but said that gay people should still purchase his new book “Everyday a Friday” and learn from its message of empowerment. “They don’t have to let people steal their power, especially all the bullying, things that we see going on with that,” he said. Osteen also suggested gays could be converted:
Somebody that maybe had this certain difficulty now, maybe in five years they’re not if we will love them. You know, I think one of the messages I speak on sometimes is, you know, we can love people back into wholeness. But sometimes we want to beat them down — you got this addiction and you shouldn’t have that, or you did this — I just don’t think that’s the best way.Osteen said that he would attend a same-sex marriage but wouldn’t officiate it, before adding, “we’re all growing, we’re all changing.” “Somebody who has a certain difficulty now, maybe they won’t in five years. You know, one of the messages I speak to is, you can love people into wholeness.”
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/10/2 … ?mobile=nc
I am not necessarily a fan of Joel Osteen, but he was one of the first in a Google search with an opinion similar to mine on the subject.
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Satan has a gay in a strong "vice" and "vise" grip and it can only be broken by the power of Christ Jesus coming into his heart. The "love" a gay wants is not the love a righteous person would have. He wants sex with you. It is hard to approach them. There usually is no gentleness about them.
The approach must be very guarded as they may just pull you into their Quagmire. They must be brought to be concerned about their salvation. If that is seen that there is no interest it is best to leave it lay there. Check back later to see if any change in concern of salvation has entered, but again be very careful and pray for Him to keep you from falling in the encounter.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
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