International Date Line

bob · 01-03-12 10:14 am

The dilemma for those SDAs who live in Samoa is that the International Date line has been moved and the churches have to decide which day is going to be the 7th day. Actually no one should have any problem since the Sabbath has been abrogated along with the remainder of the OC law, but some insist it is eternal and will, till death do part, observe it, so it does become an issue.

I see a much bigger problem that has faced SDAs since the get go and that is where the Sabbath began which is atop Mt Sinai. Everyone East of Mt Sinai naturally observe it as the sun sets in their local meridians. This should be so until the sun sets at Sinai the next day, but it is not. Every one West of Sinai would trail behind as the Earth revolves, but they all don't. The dilemma comes with New Zealand and West to the Sinai meridian. They start their Sabbath a day early because of the man made International Date Line.

I would like to ask all the SDAs who frequent this site how to resolve this problem. All those living West of the International Date Line are worshiping on Friday until they get to Sinai which is the original spot where the Sabbath was given to the children of Israel.

Ellen White and her little flock kept the wrong Sabbath hours for about six years. When someone explained to them they were wrong they immediately changed the starting and ending times. Is someone in the flock willing to stand up and correct this wrong?

Tom, while you are about changing the OC Sabbath to you NC day of whatever why not also include changing the day for all those SDAs who are worshiping on the wrong day. Mrs White lived in Australia for quite some time and was guilty of observing the wrong day. Wonder why her angel didn't give her a vision?,

Last edited by bob (01-03-12 10:25 am)

bob_2 · 01-03-12 7:49 pm

Bob, this is Bob_2. I know you are trying to give a hand to those orthodox Sabbath keepers along the date line, but this is so small ball, isn't it. The argument in the early church with the Jews wasn't this but that Jesus was God. When the Jews became abusive, Paul worshipped where and when they would have them. The day and time didn't matter, only to the extent of the convenience of the worshippers or student.

Acts 18: 5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. 6 But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”
7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.” 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

Notice that after Paul shook his clothes he went next door to a house and with God's blessing and protection worshipped and taught there for a year and a half.

Last edited by bob_2 (01-03-12 7:52 pm)

bob · 01-03-12 8:06 pm

bob_2 wrote:

Bob, this is Bob_2. I know you are trying to give a hand to those orthodox Sabbath keepers along the date line, but this is so small ball, isn't it. The argument in the early church with the Jews wasn't this but that Jesus was God. When the Jews became abusive, Paul worshipped where and when they would have them. The day and time didn't matter, only to the extent of the convenience of the worshippers or student.
Acts 18: 5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. 6 But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”
7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.
9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.” 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
Notice that after Paul shook his clothes he went next door to a house and with God's blessing and protection worshipped and taught there for a year and a half.

Why haven't you written off all those SDAs on the forum? Why try to discourage me from something that is very important to Sabbath observers? When we see possible error in their observance of the most important of their 10 Commandments, the one with the "halo" around it, shouldn't we at least discuss it? Why are you so hell bent on pouring cold water on it? Let me remind you that this is not, in total, your forum.

bob_2 · 01-04-12 1:15 am

Bob, (Bob_1), if you would post more often then it wouldn't look like I was trying to have Bob_2 at the end of each thread. So is that a yes that you will post more? You can even take shots at me as you have here.

Last edited by bob_2 (01-04-12 1:16 am)

bob · 01-04-12 9:28 am

Sorry about the similarity of names. I must have used the name Bob first and you too wanted to be known as Bob like on the old forum. I have no problem changing my handle if the administrator will allow it and can change it for me. My middle name is Louis and I could be called Louie. Robert seems stuffy to me.

As to the shots, I respect you and do not complain to you about the contents of your posts. I only hope you will have the same respect and courtesy for me. If I post something derogatory then I should be chastised. As I view my OP it is not derogatory and need not have been censored. In my humble opinion you were acting like the gestapo.

As to how much I post, well you make me chuckle Bob. How much, in your opinion, is enough posting to stay in good graces with you? And if I post more will you accept what I post and not criticize that I am posting the wrong content?

The last thing I want to do is fuss with a brother In Christ. Maybe I should have let your original post roll off like water, but then you would not have know how you made me feel.

bob_2 · 01-04-12 11:09 am

The confusion with names is not mine, but some other posters. If you see some confusion, your offer for another handle can be directed to Ryan, the Administrator. As far as ownership of the forum, I have none, and was not jabbing at you, I do have a style that has a little fun, but I am pretty well acquainted with the tSDA position, it is not what Tom Norris purports. In all my time as a tSDA I never saw his position of a Reformed Sabbath. Here the word Reformed, I believe confuses the reader, because Reformed SDA, the denomination, does not have a Reformed position on the Sabbath, this is of Tom's creation. From my reading, Reformed SDA's obsess on members being conscientious objectors and came out during World War I or II.

I was made "Moderator" of the New Covenant group of threads, but I need to get Ryan to show how to access the tools a Moderator uses. Otherwise I'm just a regular poster. Except for objecting to obscenties or bullying on line, I am just another poster and I refer most of the "moderating" to Ryan.

I like Bob_2 because everyone usually wonders who Bob_1 is. Bob was taken under ATomorrow.com and it just came over that way to ATomorrow.net. I think with the number of posts as Bob_2, it might confuse current members or any lurkers if I changed it. The number of times you post is not an issue with Ryan. We all hope to get into topics that will bring back some of the ATomorrow.com folks. By the way, if you type in www.ATomorrow.com all our previous discussions and posts are there. A very long thread on the Sabbath is there at http://www.atomorrow.com/discus/message … 1222989241 . We had a lot of fun and J.R. is missed.

Last edited by bob_2 (01-04-12 11:22 am)

bob · 01-06-12 10:48 am

I wonder why there are no defenders of the time of Sabbath observance as stated in the OP? If I am wrong about my observance I would think that someone would challenge my bobservation. Tom, is it okay to observe the Sabbath on the wrong day because Jesus gave us a NC pattern of observance?

Is starting the weekly cycle at the International date line acceptable to those who believe they are observing the day because Jesus arose on Sunday at Jerusalem or Sabbath observers observing Saturday because God gave the Israelites the special day at Sinai? Shouldn't observance start at Sinai and go westward until sundown again back at the point where they are located on the Earth? Instead the day starts at the man made line in the Pacific approximately 12 hours before Sinai.

Someone please come and defend this possible dilemma. If the Sabbath has a halo around it and man can be lost if not observed, I would think those who believe this would be somewhat interested in getting to the bottom of the possible problem.

bob_2 · 01-06-12 2:25 pm

The question is an interesting one. Why don't more Adventists come on and indicate why they have such a position as a sunset Friday to sunset Saturday position. My answer is that societal changes have presented more questions on a strict "no work" Sabbath. What of our investment dollar that continues to work over the weekend? What of our using services on Sabbath, like a shower? The water treatment plant manager who wants to be an SDA are told they would have to get a different schedule to be an SDA, yet the Sabbatarian continues to use his product. What of the police officer assigned to Friday night drunk detail or every other weekend duty? Who to call from your cell phone (separate issues with cell phone usage on Saturday)if you have an accident on your way to Saturday services? Who do you want to respond to the fire during Friday night and Saturday day hours??

Let's get even deeper into the question. The Israelites when in the desert were given the 10 Commandments with a Desert Economy. Once they hit the Promised Land, a more suburban life style came into place, and the Synagogue was introduced. No longer does the Sabbatarian get isolated to his tent, but is allowed to travel to the nearest Synagogue?

Last edited by bob_2 (01-06-12 2:28 pm)

bob · 01-06-12 3:37 pm

As long as SDAs are brainwashed with the infallibility of the prophet they will never attempt to face the many issues wholeheartedly. It was not until Herbert Armstrong died that the World Wide Church of God started facing issues. The GC will not allow ellen to die. If they did the system with with all the hierarchy would topple. Keep the tribe brainwashed and all is well.

I would think Adventists would be coming out of the cracks in the wall to the challenge. I guess as long as they can play the game of Sabbath "keeping" they are content that somehow they are safe.

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#1 01-03-12 10:14 am

International Date Line

#2 01-03-12 7:49 pm

Re: International Date Line

#3 01-03-12 8:06 pm

Re: International Date Line

#4 01-04-12 1:15 am

Re: International Date Line

#5 01-04-12 9:28 am

Re: International Date Line

#6 01-04-12 11:09 am

Re: International Date Line

#7 01-06-12 10:48 am

Re: International Date Line

#8 01-06-12 2:25 pm

Re: International Date Line

#9 01-06-12 3:37 pm

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