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what a difference in two brothers ways of discussing things. <BR> <BR>One attacks anothers post with a sarcastic, personal barb <BR><font color="0000ff">and you care???</font>, thereby potentially adding negatively charged emotional fuel to any perceived fire... <BR> <BR>while the other addresses the issue by pointing out a valuable concept, and in the process helps disarm the argument. <BR> <BR>Isn't it wonderous how human genes sort themselves out. Controlled by some divine intelligence? <BR> <BR>or a chaotic result of random natural processes? <BR> <BR>glad to have your voice of reason back, Don... <BR> <BR>but here's the question: <BR>are you two REALLY brothers?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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<b><font color="0000ff">are you two REALLY brothers?</font></b> <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>Every opportunity I get, I like to express my support for Bob and his persistence and determination to defend God's name and reputation. Also, I recall more than once when he came to my assistance when needed; both in cyberspace and in real space. I have always appreciated that. <BR> <BR>We do not approach things the same way. But our concerns are similar. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
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I guess some of us didn't realize that God needs our puny defense. Wasn't it C.S. Lewis who compared God to a lion, just let him out of his cage, humans can't defend against that.
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<b><font color="0000ff">I guess some of us didn't realize that God needs our puny defense.</font></b> <BR> <BR>He doesn't. But I like to think He is proud of those who seek to do so for Him. I like it when my kids defend me. I really don't need them to do that, but its kind of gratifying to see them put in a good word, just the same. <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
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Ain't it great when your wife proactively initiates the affection and tells others what a great husband and lover he has been. Talk about feeling amazing.....
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Don't you think that is like the feeling God gets when free will men and women worship Him and praise His name?? Because He hasn't scrapped the experiment He started with His Son, this earth and creatures in Their Image!!!
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isn't that a wonderful <font color="0000ff"> feeling God gets when free will men and women worship Him and praise His name??</font> <BR> <BR>since it is claimed that this loving Hebrew God is turned on by the smell of burning flesh (a sweet savor), one can only wonder why He requires the massacre and immolation of zillions of innocent sheep... <BR> <BR>One wonders how He gets this loving feeling watching, yes, even helping His chosen tribe of nomads kill all their neighbors, including the men, little boys, and any women who have had sex...but save the virgins to <i>use</i>. <BR> <BR>One wonders how rewarding it is to this Omniscient God to tell Pharoah to let His people go, and then when the Pharoah agrees, this God changes Pharoahs mind!!! and the reason ? to shew His even greater works, such as killing all of egypts innocent firstborn kids and animals!!! <BR> <BR>What a great feeling that must be to God...to know He is so powerful and smart that He can kill innocent kids and pets!!! (forgetting at the time the harm it would later do to His chosen people, as the surviving Egyptians went with another god who now is at war with the hebrews, and even killing US as their blind supporters.) <BR> <BR>...unless, of course, this was just a superstitious campfire tale told by a small, warlike, jingoistic tribe of nomads...and maybe God is not at all like that.... <BR> <BR>why would an omnipowerful, omniscient being require people to "bow down" to him? <BR> <BR>or is the process of bowing equal to sticking ones neck out so that if the sovereign is unhappy with your performance, your dedication, your obsequious "worship", your neck can be sliced off with the broad axe? <BR> <BR>is that why an obsequious Obama bowed down to a dictator Saudi king? <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/89/1194.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">He hasn't scrapped the experiment He started with His Son, this earth and creatures in Their Image!!!</font> <BR> <BR>He almost did...tried to kill everybody and everything with a world wide flood, but at the last 120 years, decided to let one family survive, and 7 pairs of sloths which had to swim the Pacific ocean with no food , no fresh water, to get to the ark to survive a flood; after which the remaining 6 pair (since Noah butchered one pair in thanks to God for helping him save the other 6 pair) all have to swim back to Central and S. America, and no where else, sloth-paddling all the way across the Pacific ocean with no food and no fresh water. And then this God carefully rearranged the geology of the earth in a Baumgartner rapid plate techtonic catastrophe to make it look like no such flood had occured. <BR> <BR>Doncha just love the power and thoughtfulness of the Hebrews God to do all this just for us? <BR> <BR>either that, or one just ruefully smiles at the imagination of the Hebrews writers in taking ancient stories they had heard around the Babylonian campfires, and adopting and adapting and rewriting them as their own family biography. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by john8verse32 on May 05, 2009)
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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Christians have an insurmountable dilemma: Trying to convince intelligent people that the God described in the OT is the very same God represented in Jesus, in the NT. <BR> <BR>That they haven't been too successful is shown by the decreasing numbers of believers today than even 20 years ago. Perhaps since people learned to read the Bible for themselves and no longer depended on their priests or clergy to interpret it for them, the dissonance simply could not be ignored. All the explanations have not satisfactorily answered that puzzle. <BR> <BR>Maybe they should have left it as monotheism. And Jesus was an entirely different person--so much easier to love.
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I love this Doctor <BR> <BR>Q: Doctor, I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life. Is this true? <BR> <BR>A: Your heart is only good for so many beats, and that's it... don't waste them on exercise. Everything wears out eventually. Speeding up your heart will not make you live longer; that's like saying you can extend the life of your car by driving it faster. Want to live longer? Take a nap. <BR> <BR>Q: Should I cut down on meat and eat more fruits and vegetables? <BR> <BR>A: You must grasp logistical efficiencies. What does a cow eat? Hay and corn. And what are these? Vegetables. So a steak is nothing more than an efficient mechanism of delivering vegetables to your system. Need grain? Eat chicken. Beef is also a good source of field grass (green leafy vegetable). And a pork chop can give you 100% of your recommended daily allowance of vegetable products. <BR> <BR>Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake? <BR> <BR>A: No, not at all. Wine is made from fruit. Brandy is distilled wine, that means they take the water out of the fruity bit so you get even more of the goodness that way. Beer is also made out of grain. Bottoms up! <BR> <BR>Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio? <BR>A: Well, if you have a body and you have fat, your ratio is one to one. If you have two bodies, your ratio is two to one, etc. <BR> <BR>Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular exercise program? <BR> <BR>A: Can't think of a single one, sorry. My philosophy is: No Pain...Good! <BR> <BR>Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you? <BR> <BR>A: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING!!! ..... Foods are fried these days in vegetable oil. In fact, they're permeated in it. How could getting more vegetables be bad for you? <BR> <BR>Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around the middle? <BR> <BR>A: Definitely not! When you exercise a muscle, it gets bigger. You should only be doing sit-ups if you want a bigger stomach. <BR> <BR>Q: Is chocolate bad for me? <BR> <BR>A: Are you crazy? HELLO Cocoa beans ! Another vegetable!!! It's the best feel-good food around! <BR> <BR>Q: Is swimming good for your figure? <BR> <BR>A: If swimming is good for your figure, explain whales to me. <BR> <BR>Q: Is getting in-shape important for my lifestyle? <BR> <BR>A: Hey! 'Round' is a shape! <BR> <BR>Well, I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about food and diets. <BR> <BR>And remember: <BR>'Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO, What a Ride' <BR>AND..... <BR> <BR>For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies. <BR> <BR>1. The Japanese eat very little fat <BR>and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans. <BR> <BR>2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat <BR>and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans. <BR> <BR>3. The Chinese drink very little red wine <BR>and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans. <BR> <BR>4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine <BR>and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans. <BR> <BR>5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans. <BR> <BR>CONCLUSION <BR> <BR>Eat and drink what you like. <BR>Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
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Elaine, thanks for the humorous post. Good to look on the lighter side, huh. <BR> <BR><b><font color="0000ff">That they haven't been too successful is shown by the decreasing numbers of believers today than even 20 years ago.</font></b> <BR> <BR>The problem with the OT God is not so new. Recall Marcion's view of the two competing entities. I suspect that any decrease in numbers of believers is for a variety of reasons. <BR> <BR>The Gospel writers report that Jesus actually tried to discourage some people from becoming followers; i.e. those looking for an easy ride. <BR> <BR>Foxes have their homes, but I don't; He told them. <BR> <BR>Count the cost, he says in another place. <BR> <BR>Narrow is the way...few there be that find it. <BR> <BR>Adventist, like others, get feeling good if their numbers are growing and bad if they are dwindling. We go so far as refusing to report losses, etc. <BR> <BR>What ever happened to "lean and mean"? <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>I believe that the church can accomplish more in small groups than in large groups. Big business is notorious for uncaring about the "little" guy and putting people on an eternal hold (telephone). Give me a small group, or business, that really cares and let me sign up. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>
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Don, <BR>The church wanting more members vs. the spreading of the Gospel are two different things. "Lean and mean" is hardly the goal in spreading the Gospel and certainly not the goal in membership numbers either, but for two different reasons. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">I believe that the church can accomplish more in small groups than in large groups.</font> <BR> <BR>I thought the point of the church is to spread "good news" to as many as possible. What else is the church trying to accomplish? It should be like Peter's dream - whatever kind; not a well-oiled social organization with impeccable commandment keepers.
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<b><font color="0000ff">What else is the church trying to accomplish?</font></b> <BR> <BR>Maybe we should examine why Jesus seems to discourage membership at times. It was not based on having just impeccable commandment keepers. He seemed to discourage the people wanting a materialistical easy ride. <BR> <BR>"I don't even have a home, can you put up with that?" <BR> <BR>"Count the cost, this is not going to be a piece of cake." <BR> <BR>When Jesus had just fed the 5000, the people wanted to make Him their king. After that, Jesus began saying some things which had to be thought ought; struggled with. Those who would not tolerate surface "foolishness" such as "eat my flesh" left following Him. <BR> <BR>No, I don't see Jesus discouraging those struggling with habits that befall humanity. Rather, I see Him challenging those who want material comforts. <BR> <BR>Of course, the history of the church, recent and ancient, shows that the church has provided not only material comfort to its leadership, but often material luxury. The material cost has been assessed and even the pagans envied the material comforts of the church leaders. <BR> <BR><b><font color="0000ff">I thought the point of the church is to spread "good news" to as many as possible.</font></b> <BR> <BR>It is. But, not without challenging their need to count the cost before joining up, especially those who want to be on the front lines. <BR> <BR>Kind of like the difference between working for a major corporation like AT&T and and a charity running on volunteer efforts. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Don on May 18, 2009)
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