Collegedale Approves Beer by the Drink

don · 09-12-09 8:59 am

Collegedale Approves Beer by the Drink September 9, 2009<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:A Tennessee Valley town known for it's Southern Adventist school is now serving alcohol. Collegedale City Commissioners approved that measure at Tuesday night's meeting. They hope beer sales spur growth and any revenue right now is badly needed...<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Read more at: <a href="http://www.newschannel9.com/news/tennessee-984501-drink-adventist.html" target=_top>http://www.newschannel9.com/news/tennessee-984501- drink-adventist.html</a> .

cadge · 09-12-09 10:56 am

The "enemy of man" is encroaching upon the perimeter of firebase SAU. First it was Little Debbie's; now here comes the alcohol. Counsels on Diets ad Foods: P.87 Fruit instead of rich desserts. " Discard everything detrimental to health". "Discard rich pastries, cakes desserts and the other dishes prepared to tempt the appetite". P.321 Sweet breads and cookies cause disturbences inthe stomach, and produce impatience and irritability in those who accustom themselves to their use. ...sweetest crackers; injury to the digestive system. P.328 Better to leave sweet things alone. You do not need them. You want a clear mind to think after God's order. EGw said that the words that she writes are not her words, and that it is not her that we disobey, but God. I hope that the responsible members of the remnant church are standing up for these admonishions and not leading the children into habits of compromising disobediance. P.62&63 "Abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul" (Apostle Peter). ...a most forceful warning against the use of stimulents and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol and morphine. P.428 The only safe course is to touch not, taste not, handle not, tea, coffee, wines tobacco, opium and alcoholic drinks. When you visit the independant/self supporting institutions of SDA's you will not see these things indulged in. Why is that? Because God said not to through his messenger, Ellen G White. Are the indies the true Remnant? What make those that do not follow the counsels of God's messenger? "He that knoweth to do good and dooeth it not, to him it is sin"(James 4:17) "He that commiteth sin is of the devil..."(1John3:8). I hope this helps. Cadge

john8verse32 · 09-12-09 11:11 am

<a href="http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/campus_news/2009/09/09/alcohol_approved_collegedale" target=_top>http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/campus_news/2009/09/09/alcohol_approved_collegedale</a> <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/7/1836.gif" alt="">

cadge · 09-12-09 11:57 am

<a href="http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/campus_news/2009/09/09/alcohol_approved_collegedale" target=_top>http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/campus_ne ws/2009/09/09/alcohol_approved_collegedale</a> "Alcohol is strictly forbidden on Southern's campus. Page 3 of the most recent SAU handbook lists students' commitments, including a commitment to "avoid alcohol, tobacco, improper drug use, and sex outside of marriage." They forgot to mention cookies and sweet breads.

don · 09-12-09 12:43 pm

They forgot to mention cookies and sweet breads. A friend of mine, my senior by many years, wanted to disfellowship all who ate cheese. The "health message" is not the standard for a school's rules about Alcohol, IMO. It is the problem of potential for immediate "social evil". For example, approx. 1/4 of all traffic fatalities are alcohol related. I wonder how many fatalities are cookies and sweet breads related. OR, why do many jurisdictions continue to make underage drinking illegal. Why not sweet breads? (Message edited by Don on September 12, 2009)

bob_2 · 09-12-09 1:23 pm

Those of you concerned with uncontrolled blood sugar or diabetes, if you have that condition, which a lot of obese people have, they can not drive a school bus or 18 wheeler until this is under control, then, if you are an insulin dependent individual, you have to apply to the Department of Transportation for an exemption before you can get licensed to drive these type of vechicles. Cadge, that ought to make you feel a little more comfortable in you neck of the woods, whereever that is. The school has rules, the town has rules. They are separate and should be.

elaine · 09-12-09 2:59 pm

Elaine, have you read the Bible cover to cover There is no need when you know everything written in it, and constantly remind us.

bob_2 · 09-12-09 10:33 pm

Elaine, you know where that question came from, one of your mocking, atheistic friends. Don't give me that sort of a silly answer. You know better.

bob_2 · 09-12-09 10:50 pm

I have never believed you have to have read the Bible cover to cover to comment on it any more than you have to be a citizen to comment on US affairs. You are the one afraid to answer it, because you claim to be an expert on religious matters and people like Neal have declared you more knowledgeable than us who have not read it cover to cover, but you more knowledgeable, according to Neal, have not read it, DUH, who's the silly one.

elaine · 09-13-09 12:58 pm

Bob, where did I ever claim to be an "expert" on the Bible. If Neal claimed that, FYI, my name is not Neal.

jim_m · 12-20-09 2:43 am

I've just sort of wandered into this conversation, with my eye caught by news of my former home town legalizing beer. Collegedale is much more than an Adventist college town these days. Every time I go back there it seems there's another strip mall or MacMansion where I remember pastures and woods. Plus the city limits have expanded to I don't know where. I wonder if Adventists are even in the majority there these days. And I also wonder if my middle age onset (type 2) diabetes has any relation to all the sugar I breathed in during my four years making Little Debbies. (No, I'm not obese at 150 lb. and 5'11") By the way, I didn't know about the restriction for diabetics applying for commercial driver's licenses. And just in case this is somehow relevant, I have read the Bible through from cover to cover more than once. Although I will admit to sort of speed reading through parts of Leviticus and Numbers after the first time through.

john8verse32 · 12-20-09 7:50 am

a lot has changed, Jim....you heard that JR passed away? he was also fighting a sugar problem.....have you listened to the Dr Hans Big Deal method of curing diabetes? all veggies....raw.... and about the book of Numbers.... one should not speed read thru it, cause one might miss the point...about how many God killed according to the stories....and of course, why would anyone want to miss the divine pin the tale on the talking donkey episode... and the command to the Israelites to dilute their genetic uniqueness by amalgamating with captured virgins. a (very) few of us bemoaned that bad news here: <a href="http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/sabbath_school/2009/09/28/numbers%E2%80%94_introduction" target=_top>http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/sabbath_s chool/2009/09/28/numbers%E2%80%94_introduction</a>

bob_2 · 12-20-09 4:06 pm

There was a similar story that went around Berrien Springs when I went to school there. Dr. Augsburger, a reknown OT professor, was from the OLD country and liked to cook with wine and had to decide do I buy it in St. Joseph, or Niles, (miles away) or right in Berrien that was already selling the "stuff" and risk running into one of the brethern. He felt it was more honest to buy it right under their noses, and give a reason for his belief if necessary.

jim_m · 12-20-09 4:18 pm

I've been mostly out of touch with the SDA world recently. I actually came here in hopes of contacting Maggie, who sent me a Facebook invite that I couldn't make work right to respond to her. Sorry to hear about JR. He was a genuine original. My father, who was diagnosed with diabetes about the same age as I was, is still doing relatively well at 86. So I hope . . . . I didn't speed read through the stories in Numbers. Just the counting and such. Even as a kid filled with what I had been taught about the Bible and God, I was taken aback by the horrors I found in the Old Testament. I remember a 9th grade Bible teacher who was distinctly uncomfortable with a verse where the Israelites were ordered to kill "everyone who pissth against a wall." Although it wasn't the killing part that bothered him! But it took me a few years, and an encounter with Mark Twain's remarks on the same stories, to start putting things together in a different way.

elaine · 12-20-09 4:50 pm

Jim, Maggie is a regular contributor to the Spectrum blog: spectrummagazine.org

bob_2 · 12-20-09 6:30 pm

There are various schools of thought about alcohol. 1. Don't touch even a drop because you will want to drink the whole case. 2. It is wrong on principle by certain texts in the Bible. 3. There is another school that believes man can control his urges and alcohol in moderation is possible, maybe even desired from a health stand point.

elaine · 12-20-09 8:57 pm

The majority of those who use alcohol are not alcoholics, only a small percentage are. It has long been the custom of Jews and French, Italian, and people of many other countries to serve wine with a meal; for the Germans, or course, it is beer. People do overeat, and they do drink too much, but a limited amount of alcohol is beneficial to health, just as food is needed; too much causes problems. For those who fear becoming alcoholic, then never start. Most of my family and friends drink a little wine occasionally, but none are alcoholics. I do not care for wine, or any alcoholic drink. There is more danger today in over consumption of prescription drugs than most any legal drug.

admin · 12-21-09 2:35 am

I don't comment much, but maybe it's about time I do on this thread. Don said: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:The "health message" is not the standard for a school's rules about Alcohol, IMO. It is the problem of potential for immediate "social evil". For example, approx. 1/4 of all traffic fatalities are alcohol related. I wonder how many fatalities are cookies and sweet breads related.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> A question that has been raised many times before is why is alcohol legal but pot, which makes people just want to crash on the couch and munch on some snacks, illegal? Alcohol is obviously worse, which makes apparent society's hypocrisy when it comes to protecting us. Also, I found it funny how the Spectrum article said SDAs are usually strict teetotalers. Maybe the ones who have grown up, but many university students in general, no matter if they're SDA or not, drink. And that brings me to another point in regards to Collegedale. I've lived there or near there for many years. Allowing alcohol by the drink in the city isn't going to bring it much harm, if any, since alcohol is already there. Oh, and not just alcohol, but drugs up the wazoo. My plan for success in Collegedale: 1) Make some money off of beer 2) Ban it on SAU's campus and punish those who are caught 3) Figure out what the goal of Collegedale's growth really is This last one is a major point. I love Collegedale. I grew up there and love its small town feel. I have fond memories of causing mischief when I was younger, sneaking out of the academy through the nature trail I and a few friends made for extra credit, etc. Alcohol shouldn't even be the issue in this city since it's not the root of Collegedale's problems. The root is growth for the sake of growth. Growth = more people wanting beer, more McMansions as Jim mentioned, and physically changing the town. For example, Apison Pk., which is currently a two-lane road, is going to be widened quite a bit and be hooked up to a new off-ramp from I-75 so that the new people in their subdivisions, I believe, won't clog up the current road. I admit that the current state of Apison Pk. is bad, especially when school lets out, but this is the result of the kind of growth that people didn't plan for or wanted without understanding the consequences. This will surely change Collegedale (for the worse, I might add) more than alcohol will. By the way, I loved the smell of Little Debbies in the morning, even if the cookies themselves clogged up my arteries. (Message edited by admin on December 21, 2009) (Message edited by admin on December 21, 2009)

elaine · 12-21-09 11:32 am

My son, now 51, has felt free to tell of some of his college exploits, both at PUC and Walla Walla. He is now a college teacher and sees the harm alcohol and drugs can cause, even in some of his students. He and his friends used to bolt their dorm door on Friday nights, bring their beer, and play poker or other card games. I'm certain his was not a rare example, his sister, 13 years his senior, also tells of similar college experiences at the girls' dorm at PUC. We should honestly face it: A good portion of Adventists do drink some alcohol, especially the younger ones. Had they all been taught, early on, the use of wine at meals, as many cultures do, it would not be such a "thrill" as is anything that is forbidden: tell a kid not to snitch cookies out of the jar and we know the result. The worst use of drugs today with young people is prescription, or legal drugs, and they can be far more dangerous.

aglassonion · 12-21-09 12:02 pm

I would like to reiterate Ryan's and Elaine's comments. I live there, went to school at Southern, and the core problem is not alcohol. It is the expansive mindset that the city commission has adopted. With expansion comes worldy influences. I had made a comment on Southern's school newspapers Facebook page a while ago when President Gordon Bietz wrote a piece about this. I wrote that morals cannot be sanctioned and protected, and thus "promoted", by mere isolation. We cannot be afraid to be exposed to the world, because it is then that we are given the opportunity to be that shining light. It must be a personal commitment of each student and faculty to abstain and promote abstinence in the face of encroaching temptation. With that being said, I miss the more pastoral and peaceful feel of Collegedale. Its growth, though more economical, is causing Collegedale to lose that special "feeling" that anyone who has lived there can confirm. It is a good home, and I hope it strives to, intelligently and economically, maintain its small-town feel. Best, Randy

elaine · 12-21-09 4:40 pm

How are young people able to "go out into the world" if they've been in a protected cocoon until they graduate college? Rather than to try to keep them miles from the "nearest known sin" they should begin to "test their wings" if they haven't earlier, and learn how to adapt to a life outside the Adventist ghetto. Really, do we need to shelter young people until they're 21 or older? Shouldn't the voting age of 18 mean they are ready to experience what it means to be an adult? How will they learn adult responsibilities if so protected?

bob_2 · 12-21-09 8:09 pm

It may depend on how one views their mission. Maybe the SDA church is like Sampson's mother that was surprised when Sampson asked to marry Delilah. Where had he been that he had met her. Certainly his strength lay more than just in his hair. EH????

aglassonion · 12-21-09 11:43 pm

It's definitely a controversial topic, and the "Adventist bubble" is a phrase often tossed around between my friends and I growing up in Collegedale. I wonder if there will be an answer. On a side note, I just ate a pack of Swiss Cake Rolls, wishing there was a way to end McKee's monetary influence on Collegedale. Double standard, eh?

jim_m · 12-22-09 2:13 am

Four years of making Little Debbies more than cured any desire I may ever have had to eat them! Just the mention of Swiss Cake Rolls makes my stomach sort of roll! I can still remember, with accompanying nausea, the sickly sweet smell of the place. At my wife's 1975 graduation from SMC, the McKees apparently furnished a good portion of the "refreshments." I was, too loudly I'm sure, saying some unkind things about the famous snack cakes, when I realized that Ellsworth McKee's wife was nearby. She said a few disapproving things about me, which probably wasn't hard for her to do, given my shoulder length hair and general hippie look at the time. I sort of crept away to another part of the room. Memories, they do take one to unexpected places . . . .

don · 12-22-09 3:02 am

The Health Message and Little Debbie <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B7Xg3VJHeSY/SOAu2KbJBRI/AAAAAAAAAY0/woFgR84il1E/s1600-h/Health+Message.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/7/2343.jpg" alt=""></a> Thanks to Little Debbie, I graduated from Southern without any debt. I worked as a janitor there; a sanitary engineer. McKee was under fire then for producing sweets. They actually attempted a granola cookie. I helped prepare the coconut; running it through a huge conveyor belt dryer. I especially recall how each Friday, the factory got a washdown. The weekly observance of the Sabbath there is quite impressive. Also, one of my tasks was to clean the "smoke room" walls. The room was yellow, but the tar from the smoke made it more yellow. McKee financed the library. As a student who had been protected all his life, the library was like heaven. Sort of like the Internet is now. <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> .

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Collegedale Approves Beer by the Drink

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