Adventists for Tomorrow

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#1 03-18-11 6:34 pm

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Rebellion in Libya

The Un has a dismal record of dealing with human rights abuses,Rwanda and Darfur just to name two. Will they do any better in Libya.

Or will Gadaffya be able to stay in power and slaughter his own people.

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#2 03-18-11 11:34 pm

hfsturges
Member
From: Grand Junction, Colorado
Registered: 01-21-10
Posts: 244
Website

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Hello Old Abe,

Gadaffy may or may not win, but for sure we are going to lose.  We made a big mistake in toppling Saddam Hussein.  After all, he was able to keep a semblance of order in Iraq.  He killed a lot of people in the process.  But how many have we killed in trying to improve things?

We have yet to see how things turn out in Egypt since we (U.S.) put pressure on Mubarak to move out.  Best we let those mid-east countries solve their problems as they see fit.

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#3 03-19-11 7:00 am

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Hubb
If we go back in time we probably made a mistake in eliminating Hitler.Had we not interfered than there would be no Israel to keep the troubles going in the middle east.where do we draw the line.Do we ignore someone beating a dog on the basis it is not our dog and the dog is going to die eventually .

No easy answers to these things.

Funny how life works out. The USA came out of a bloody rebellion against the British Crown but both Canada and Australia etc achieved as good or better democracies within the Empire.

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#4 03-20-11 12:19 am

hfsturges
Member
From: Grand Junction, Colorado
Registered: 01-21-10
Posts: 244
Website

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Old Abe,

Well, let's see.  We'll follow your reasoning:  Somalia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Tibet, and a number of other countries have governments that oppress the people, persecute and marginalize people because of race or religion, and do nothing but steal all the money from their oil, mining, and even their legitimate businesses.  By your reasoning we should dive in and change their governments.

We don't because they are not threatening us as a nation.  However, Iran is:  should we dive in and knock out their nuclear capability?

For Hamas to send rockets into Israel is an act of war.  Should we encourage, even assist Israel to remove all rockets and disarm the countries around Israel?

About Hitler:  He was a dictator of a nation that was and is fully capable of self-government with a change of regime.  We have found out that Iraq does not have that capability.  And a number of the African, Mid-east, and Muslim countries are very questionable in their ability to govern themselves.  We are in the position of accepting, maybe even encouraging oppressive dictatorships because their governments are stable. To try to make a change is to open a can of worms that promises to become unmanageable.  e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan.

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#5 03-20-11 7:33 am

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Hubb
Your response is highly racist because you are implying that only  whites with a Judeo Christian heritage can govern themselves.All lesser breeds should be left to the tender mercies of dictators tryrants and madmen.

Especially if those dictators etc supply the Christian ? west with cheap goods and services and a market for our weapons of war. It is shameful what we do and no where near the ideals that Jesus espoused.

We can argue about the OC/NC until we are blue in the face but as long as we personally benefit from the misery of others we are not fulfilling our Christian duty.

And no we do not have to wage war with every dictator on the face of the planet but we do not have to enrich them either.

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#6 03-20-11 11:42 am

hfsturges
Member
From: Grand Junction, Colorado
Registered: 01-21-10
Posts: 244
Website

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Highly racist?

Maybe to complete the picture I could mention Japan, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, China and India.  I do not think that we need to consign "non-whites" to dictators and mad men.  All I am saying is that the intervention that we have made in Iraq and Afghanistan has made things worse, not better.  The fault in those cases is as much our own poor judgment as much as theirs.

And should we break off all contact and have no business with them because of their dysfunctional governance?  Your reasoning here ls faulty.  It is only through honest contact with these countries that we have any chance at all of improving their situations.

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#7 03-20-11 3:40 pm

Old Abe
Member
Registered: 01-18-10
Posts: 106

Re: Rebellion in Libya

Hubb
It was largely the West (Christian?) that armed Saddam Hussain and Gadaffi and may others. It was the West ,mainly the USA that kept the dictators in power in Chile ,Argentina and still do in China.

Importing shoddy goods made by practically slave labour in China has largely destroyed the USA economy.

So we are paying for our sin and hyprocracy in shaking hands with the Devil.

As far as Iraq is concerned it is mostly fulfillment of prophecy that the "lamb like beast " should spend in strength and fortune in what was once Babylon.

You will never reform a drug addict by supplying him/her pot and smoking a joint with them. And you will not promote liberty and freedom by enabling dictators to rule.

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