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#26 11-18-11 11:41 pm

l_miller
Member
Registered: 04-21-11
Posts: 133

Re: Thank you

Open Letter to the
Leaders of the SDA Church
On September 19, 2001 an open letter was hand-delivered to Clifford Goldstein at the General Conference in Silver Spring, Maryland.  At this pre-scheduled meeting, Mr. Goldstein accepted the letter from Tom Norris and agreed to deliver it to Bill Johnsson, Editor of the Review.  In addition, the letter was posted on the Atoday website so that the entire Adventist community could view the Leaders' reaction and participate in the discussion.  In fact, many people were watching to see how the Leaders would react in this dramatically new and dangerous, post 9/11 world.

Nevertheless, the hierarchical leaders refused to acknowledge the need for Adventist reform.  They wanted no discussion about such things, nor did the leaders want to be held accountable for the great damage caused to this movement.  In short, the leaders hoped all this talk of accountability and church reform would not be taken seriously and they wanted it stopped.

So the hierarchical SDA leaders ignored this public call for Reform, choosing instead to reply with censorship.  That is why the Atoday Forum website was shut down.  The leaders took this action because they did not want the people to discuss such divisive issues.  They wanted to set the agenda and control the discussion.  The leaders had no intention of dealing openly or honestly with the serious problems that plague this Church.  Moreover, the leaders did not want to be held accountable for their gross mismanagement and fraud that had been uncovered at the General Conference.  Therefore, they have been purposefully running from this discussion about Adventist Reform ever since, pretending that all is well, when everyone knows that this is not true.


A Bad Attitude


For some reason, the SDA leaders seem to think that they can do as they please, without any accountability or consequence.  In fact, they act as if this Church is their own private enterprise, without any stockholders to placate or pioneers to follow.  They act as if they have the authority to dishonestly revise Church history whenever it suits them, as well as to manufacture false and impossible doctrine as needed.  They are very wrong. 

The leaders are to "serve," not control.  There is no Biblical basis for this hierarchical style organization, nor do they have the right to create doctrine or to censor any discussion about church history or theology.  This behavior is outrageous and unacceptable especially from a Protestant denomination; and should not be tolerated by Adventists.

As the Bible states:

Luke 22:24:  And there arose also a dispute among them as to which one of them was regarded to be greatest.

Luke 22:25:  And He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who have authority over them are called ‘Benefactors.’ "

Luke 22:26:  “But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant."



Avoiding Questions


No church leader has been given the right to avoid any questions about doctrine.  In fact, the apostles teach that all questions about theology must be credibly and openly addressed upon demand.  Peter 3:15 says that one must "always" be  "ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you…" 

Thus, the SDA leaders have no apostolic support for their hierarchical behavior that seeks to censor and stop this discussion.  The leaders have no basis to avoid the theological issues or to hide from the questions.  Their strategy to avoid a public "defense" of their doctrines is contrary to the New Testament.  Peter forbids it. 

Shutting down websites as the church leaders have done with the Atoday website is an exercise in futility.  There is no way to prevent new sites from coming online.  The very same questions will reappear until questions are answered and resolved.  So the demise of the Atoday Forum was a needless attack upon the Adventist community.  It barely delayed the discussion as the Atomorrow website took its place and now the discussion about Adventist Reform is gaining ground, even as the leaders continue to run, hide, and censor.

In fact, the Adventist Reform website was developed because the leaders refused to openly and honestly deal with the issues.  They refused to tell the truth to the Church. It was time for all SDAs to know their own history and to understand how their leaders have horribly misled and deceived them about Ellen White, 1888, the Investigative Judgment, and Glacier View.  As stated in Luke,


Luke 12:2:  “But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known."



All is Not Well


Stopping the discussion and pretending that all is well makes no sense in this post 9/11 world.  All is NOT well.  The SDA church is in a grave crisis that must be fully and honestly addressed.  This is no time for pretending. Rather, it is time to deal with the issues head on and to resolve them.  The members of the Adventist Church deserve much better from their leaders.

The original Open Letter has remained unanswered for a number of years.  I suggest that the leaders stop pretending that there is no need for Reform and deal with the issues, which will not disappear. 

I also suggest that the Review Editor, Bill Johnsson stop trying to censor this discussion and start dealing honestly with the many problems that are facing this church.  There is nothing to be gained by delaying the inevitable.  The leaders are going to have to admit that they have made a horrible mistake at Glacier View and deal with the consequences.

So it is time for the SDA leaders to stop pretending that all is well.  It is time for answers, not censorship. It is also time to hold the Review, the White Estate, and the General Conference accountable for their many false doctrines as well as their dishonest and outrageous behavior that has brought this Movement to the brink of despair and self-destruction. 

Make no mistake about what has happened.  The SDA leaders are guilty of repudiating and betraying the Adventist pioneers.  They have deceived this Church about Ellen White, 1888, and the Three Angels’ Messages.  They have betrayed the trust of the entire Adventist Community.  Now it is time for all this to become public knowledge and for the leaders to explain themselves.

Here is the original letter:


Open Letter to the Leaders of the SDA Church

As we move into the Twenty-first Century, no one can deny that the Advent movement is facing a serious crisis of theological purpose, identity, and credibility. At this time of global crisis, the eschatological mission of the Church is confused, and the apocalyptic charts no longer make sense.

Moreover, the Gospel proclamation of salvation, within the context of the final Judgment, has been eclipsed by a false teaching that competes with the core doctrines of historic Adventism. To make matters worse, the Health Message, which was once considered the "right arm of the message," has been virtually destroyed by the Denomination’s mismanagement during a time of unprecedented consumer demand. What has happened to Adventism? How could we have become so disoriented and lost?

Today, Adventism has been reduced to confusion and ridicule. The Denomination no longer represents a credible religious paradigm. Over the last 22 years, millions of once loyal Adventists have abandoned the Church as despair, anger, and schism have replaced faith, hope and love. In short, Adventism is in a serious crisis that needs to be openly addressed and resolved in the most forthright and skilled manner.

Unfortunately, the leaders seem unable to understand that unless certain action is taken, historic Adventism will continue to self-destruct at the very time when the church and the world needs a clear eschatological message. It is time for the leaders to stand tall and move forward within the Adventist apocalyptic. It is too late for business as usual. If the Adventist movement is to play a meaningful prophetic role in the 21st century, gospel reform is necessary.

Key Areas of Reform

The following represents the key areas of reform that must be OPENLY addressed and resolved by the leadership.

First and foremost, the Church needs to submit to the authority of Scripture. This means that ALL doctrine MUST be fully supported by the Scripture. Such a Protestant position is the historic foundation for all true Adventists, including Ellen White. If this critical and fundamental problem cannot be corrected, then the Advent Movement can no longer be considered Protestant and we have reached the end of the Adventist apocalyptic. Will the leaders allow the Advent movement to disintegrate? Or will they stand up and defend historic Adventism and lead it forward into the 21st century?

Every one of the "27 Fundamentals" needs to be examined to see if scripture can support them. There are a number of so-called "sacred doctrines" that will NOT withstand this sacred examination. They need to be identified, discussed, and corrected in a public manner.

Second, the Apostolic Gospel needs to be specifically included in the "fundamental teaching" of the church. This "chief doctrine" has strangely been omitted. Moreover, this correction requires not only adjustments to the "27 Fundamentals," but also an apology to Dr. Ford and the reinstatement of his Gospel credentials.

The Gospel has been a fundamental pillar of this historic movement since the very beginnings of the First Angel’s Message. If this salvific doctrine is not more fully and completely embraced, the Adventist Church will continue its downward spiral into confusion and self-destruction. The leaders must stand up for the Protestant Gospel or Adventism will be doomed. The Church has failed this test in both 1888 and 1980. A third rejection could be fatal.

The Adventist Apocalyptic, which is the Three Angels’ Messages, needs to be correctly understood and respected. This means that the eschatological charts, along with the fundamental rules and "pillars" of "historic Adventism" need to be clearly articulated and followed. When the historic Three Angels’ Messages are allowed to stand in their place within the Adventist apocalyptic, without manipulation and distortion, the church will understand how to move forward and develop the final message.

The Third Angels’ Message, as a historical paradigm is over. It has expired two decades ago. The church needs to recognize and understand this eschatological fact so that it can move forward to develop the last Advent message, which the Pioneers referred to as the "loud cry" of the Fourth Angels Message located in Revelation 18.
Where is the Plan?
The Adventist pioneers had a well-documented eschatological plan that spoke powerfully to Bible-minded Protestants in the Nineteenth Century. They never expected our evil world to last this long. But this unexpected delay has left the church unprepared for the 21st century.

No doubt the pioneers would be stunned to see our dangerous world that seems poised on the brink of Apocalypse. But they would be even more surprised to witness our theological confusion and lack of prophetic vision. What would they say to us about our loss of mission and message? What would they say about all the division and anger? The pioneers would be very disappointed.

Today, the Church must develop a Strategic Plan that will unify the various factions without doing harm to the fundamental doctrines of historic Adventism. This plan must correct faulty doctrine, update the apocalyptic charts, and prepare the Church to survive the great time of trouble that Adventists have always predicted would come upon the world.

In addition, this plan must reorganize the Church structure in order to better reflect the New Testament Model, which was not hierarchical whatsoever. Let this plan also show how the Health Message is to be revived and made a useful component of the Adventist Community in the Twenty First century.

It is time for comprehensive Gospel Reform to bring revival and reformation to the weary and discouraged Advent Pilgrims. The leaders have a fiduciary responsibility to produce such a plan and present it to the people for approval. Such a plan should have been written and executed years ago. But this is no time to point fingers or make accusations. Rather, it is time for immediate and credible action without excuse or delay.

The Adventist people deserve a coherent response from their leaders. How will the leaders respond?
Tom Norris
Adventist Reform
September 19, 2001
© Thomas A. Norris, 2005.

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#27 11-19-11 4:08 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Thank you

UH??? You believe in Norris' reformed Sabbath?  This has nothing to do with the Reformation that we all speak of when mentioning Luther or Calvin, but rather it is the ego of Norris that drives his type of reform.

Ok, who's all for a Sabbath that you now can work on. What an oxymoron!!! Either it is about rest physical on a day or about a God/man that brought the fulfillment to the Sabbath so one could be at rest by accepting the reality of Christ our rest we can have any minute, hour, day, week or eternity. Tom declares that heresy, Col 2:16-17.

If the following is talking about Norris' Reformed Sabbath, you need to trade your glasses in for a pair of discernment glasses The barrier of the law between Jew and Gentile has been destroyed, there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female is this new Kingdom with Christ's fulfilled Law:

Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Thank you for sure but not for Norris, but for  Christ "himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility."

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#28 11-19-11 4:18 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: Thank you

Read this article:

What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.

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#29 11-24-11 4:30 am

l_miller
Member
Registered: 04-21-11
Posts: 133

Re: Thank you

Bob2: What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?

http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html
                                                                                                                                                                   
bob2, are you still seeking a donation for "gotquestions.org"? 


Google   "Alternate Ways to Support GotQuestions.org"

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#30 11-24-11 4:33 am

l_miller
Member
Registered: 04-21-11
Posts: 133

Re: Thank you

Bob2 said:  Readers, my mention of Zaspel was never to seek donations to him, but to introduce New Covenant Theology and he does it as good as any that have brought this understanding of the Covenants forward.

Tom said:  Zaspel is promoting false and absurd theology.  He needs to repent and stop misleading and “exploiting” people.

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