Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy

bob_2 · 02-22-09 1:17 pm

Has anyone heard this discussion. Let me introduce it to those who haven't and those that have can jump in: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Over at the Pyromaniacs, Phil Johnson has posted a reply to the common rejoinder that right practice doesn’t always follow from right doctrine. Of course, the teaching of right doctrine isn’t a magic formula for a doctrinally perfect audience, but right belief always produces right actions. Here are a few thoughts on this point: 1.) If right actions produced right beliefs, then the keeping the Law, or some man-made add-ons, could serve to produce a change the heart of man. (this seems to be a major theme in Fundamentalism) 2.) If there were no causal connection between right belief and right action, then faith could be viewed as independent of righteousness, and at most they would only influence each other (this seems to be a major theme in Evangelicalism). Romans 1 speaks to both of these perspectives. Consider that Paul sets out a thing to believe, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” At this point we have right beliefs, the content of which is the gospel of Christ. So it is obvious that the gospel includes Jesus, but is that all? This question drives us to understand how broad the idea of “gospel” might be, so Paul continues, “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” Now we see that the content of “the gospel” includes (at least) the person of Christ and also reveals the righteousness of God in some way. This points us to the statement, “the just shall live by faith.” These verses, and especially this last statement, would make no sense if right belief (faith in Christ) and righteous actions were not connected inextricably - even part and parcel of one another. Similarly, it would be nonsensical if it were suggested to suggest that right actions produce right belief about Christ. The only way to understand this verse is to conclude that right belief necessarily produces righteous actions. The significance of this connection also informs the rest of the following passage, as mankind is expected to respond to the revelation of God (right belief) with right actions (humility, obedience, worship). Even a superficial reading of the rest of chapter one will lead unfailingly to the conclusion that it is the suppression and denial of right belief (the truth of God) that leads to the unrighteousness that follows. Part of the problem is that Theologians have spent so much of their time parsing out the various particulars of their theological system that they have forgotten, or caused to be forgotten, that the point of theology is to point us to God so that we might respond rightly. Every revelation of God is to be believed because it is true as He is true; this is the core of orthodoxy. Likewise, every revelation of God demands a particular response from His creation that can be summed up in humility and love; this is the core of orthopraxy. Rather than dividing these two points, we must acknowledge that righteousness necessarily flows from a right belief regarding what God has revealed, and distorted beliefs will lead, unfailingly, to unrighteousness. Where there is wrong behavior, there is wrong belief, and this points to part of the problem! Some might be tempted to disagree on the basis that right behavior can be disconnected from right beliefs. For example, the hypocrite does the right things but doesn’t actually believe right doctrine. However, this does not disprove the causal relationship between orthodoxy and orthopraxy, rather it serves to warn that the relationship is not reversible! Furthermore, where orthopraxy is disconnected from orthodoxy, hypocrisy flourishes and that lovely facade inevitably falls apart under its own weight. Don’t get confused by temporary shows of “spirituality,” and make no mistake about it, where false doctrine is ignored, held, or promoted, all kinds of wickedness is under the surface just waiting to stink up the place. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://neofundamentalist.com/?p=453" target=_top>http://neofundamentalist.com/?p=453</a> Intersting question: if you don't believe correctedly you won't act correctly or if you act correctly will you always believe correctly??

bob_2 · 02-22-09 1:31 pm

Does it matter what we think of: 1. Non-substitutionary atonement for our sins 2. Does it matter what we believe about the covenants 3. Does it matter what we believe. PERIOD or Only what we do. 1. Love God with all our heart. 2. Love our neighbor as our selves. 3. And..... (Message edited by Bob_2 on February 22, 2009)

bob_2 · 02-22-09 1:46 pm

Does this help your thinking on the matter: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Orthodoxy or Orthopraxy Stephen Mascal Emergents love false antithesis. They love to pit two non-contradictory concepts against one another in the form of a question. They’ll ask, “Experience or Truth?” Or they’ll ask, “Orthodoxy or Orthopraxis?” To the Christian, these are stupid questions. They’re stupid because the question reveals a severe lack of biblical understanding. Take, for instance: Experience or Truth? I was so impressed with how D.A. Carson dealt with this, I blogged my notes from his lecture and offered some additional commentary of my own. That post can be read here. I especially liked Carson’s grand finale when he yelled: “DAMN ALL FALSE ANTITHESIS TO HELL!!!” But what about Orthodoxy (right thinking) or Orthopraxis (right living)? Could this be yet another false antithesis? In light of Scripture, I answer YES. Many places in Scripture we are told that right thinking leads to right living, and that either of them without the other is dead. James said that faith without works is dead, and Paul said that zeal for God without knowledge is someone needing to be saved! If right thinking leads to right living and right living is evidence of right thinking, then it should be said that right thinking is right living. This is what Paul was meaning when he wrote to the Colossians: “And so, from the day we heard [of your faith in Christ Jesus 1:4], we have not ceased to pray for you, asking [God] that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.” - Col. 1:9-10 ESV Paul is linking knowledge and living. He says that knowledge (given by God) is the cause and living (fully pleasing to God) is the effect. This principle is true, not only for Christians, but for the heathen as well. Using the same principles reversed, wrong thinking leads to wrong living. Equally, if wrong thinking leads to wrong living and wrong living is the evidence of wrong thinking, then it should be said that wrong thinking is wrong living! This is but one passage that illustrates this biblical truth. When dealing with Emergents, we must be like Paul in Romans 10, “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.” - Romans 10:1-2 ESV “Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.” Col. 1:28-29 ESV <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Is the belief in Jesus and the sending of the Holy Spirit what empowers the Christian. It has to go past belief to receiving, to doing by that selfless activitiy, does it not.

bob_2 · 02-27-09 4:45 pm

Belief by itself will not save. Belief and action will make a difference. Choosing with man's free will what one believes will makea difference. A productive fig tree will not be withered by our savior.

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#1 02-22-09 1:17 pm

Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy

#2 02-22-09 1:31 pm

Re: Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy

#3 02-22-09 1:46 pm

Re: Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy

#4 02-27-09 4:45 pm

Re: Orthodoxy vs. Orthopraxy

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