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Here in Canada we had our defence minister saying that burning the Koran was same as burning the Bible. This proves Peter MacKay does not know anything about either the Bible or the Koran.
The Bible is God's Word as dictated to His prophets. The Koran is the irrational ramblings of a confused old man recountimg the tales he had heard in his youth.The Koran is interesting to read but burning it is no big deal though I am sure the Moslems would not agree with me.
Anyone up for a Koran burning in Canada or is it just the USA that has all the religious nutcases.
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The nutcase is represented in Pastor Jones who was a seeker of publicity. Then, a liar who claimed the Imam from New York told him they were cancelling the proposed mosque. Yes, there are nutcases in every nation, but this guaranteed the publicity he so desperately sought.
Christians believe that the Bible is God's Word. Muslims hold their Koran even higher than Christians do the Bible. For either religion to denigrate the other is both ignorant and silly. Why would anyone want to deliberately make light of other's religious beliefs? Have you ever thought it is only a one-in-a-million decision that you were raised in a nation where Christianity is the major religion, and you had no choice whatever in that? Had you been born in Iraq or Saudia Arabia, your chances are less than one in a million you would be a Christian today. Think about it before ridiculing another religion.
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Elaine
Whatever the purpose of Pastor Jones in announcing the planned Koran burning ( and I would not impute motives as I can not see inside his heart) it is obvious that the prospect of Muslim wrath filled the nations of the West with fear.
Most of the Muslim countries are third world and few have the bomb but the greatest nation of the earth cringes in terror at having to deal with their anger.Pastor Jones has revealed the impotence of the USA and the West.
What happened at 9/11 was the equivalent of the barbarians arriving at the gates of Rome for the first time. The beginning of the end for the Roman Empire.In the future historians will date 9/11 as the beginning of the collapse of the USA.
Human history is full of stories of empires that began weak ,waxed strong and faded away.It is as inevitable for nations as it is for individuals although excesses may hasten the decline.
While I do not think it wise for Pastor Jones to propose the book burning, the reaction to it proves that the battle as far as the nominal Christian West is already lost.
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Old Abe, is it at all possible to you that what McKay was doing was not making a statement about the relative truth of the two documents (Bible and Quran), but rather stating that the two actions were similar in terms of their effects on the believers of the two groups?
That seems much more likely to me.
As to the beginning of the end, well, we shall see. My suspicion is that the greater threat is more likely to be the false public form of Christianity that is so widely practiced here.
Compare today's version(s) of Islam with what was prevalent in Christianity 1400 years after its founding. Foxe's Book of Martyrs would be a good source for such an exercise.
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I don't think the it was because the U.S. cowered in the face of Islam, but that while we have thousands of troops in Muslim countries who are recognized as worshiping the Koran in a manner unlike Christians revere the Bible, to further antagonize them when they are already showing more hostility to Americans in the increased violence, would be to pour gasoline on an already burning fire.
Having concern for our military who are already in harm's way should be a real concern to all Americans, shouldn't it? We here are on our home turf, the military are not--they invaded those countries.
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Elaine
I do not think the USA would have cowered seventy if the Nazis had objected to a burning of Mien Kamp or watever Hitler's book was called. But times have changed and the West has more potential fifth columns inside its borders than it can possibly deal with.
Not saying the proposed Koran burning was a brilliant idea but boy it sure showed the world who is really boss.The attack of 9/11 was a strategetic masterpiece as well as being being precisely executed. Tragic of course for the families involved as is any casuality in any conflict but it was a brilliant though evil scheme to lead America into another quagmire of hopeless conflict.
The West can't win in Afghanistan and here in Canada we recognise that so we are pulling out next year. All our casualities were for nothing too bad our leaders had not done their homework before getting into it in the first place.
So we better get used to the idea as we will all be under Sharia
Law by the start of the next century. Our demographics show that the nominally Christian West is dying out.Time is on the side of Islam.
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The muslims who live in the US are far more integrated into American society than those in Europe are there. They are doctors and engineers and lawyers. They are no more rigid in their following of their beliefs than the typical "conservative" adventist is about theirs.
The burning didn't happen because it was a bad idea, and the wrong thing to do. we believe that the dead, when they die, cease to exist, awaiting the resurrection. The bodies of the deceased are just so much organic matter. But that doesn't mean that it would be wise, or right, for me to intrude on someone else's funeral and publically (say) urinate on their body. it's not right, or Christian, to trample on the sensitivities of others, however misinformed they may be.
As to the comparison between the Quran and Mein Kampf- a better analogy would be the burning of any books written in German or by Germans. Mein Kampf was the specific inspiration for the evil we faced in WWII. the Quran bears as much responsibility for 9/11 as the Bible does for the Spanish Inquisition.
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Christians are very adept at overlooking all the violence in the Bible and Christians diabolical killings and torture. The only peaceful religions are possibly Buddhists and Hindus, although they, too, have fought each other in the past.
Since the U.S. is considered by many to be a "Christian nation" it is the extreme fundamentalists which we should fear.
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There are some who claim that Islam is inherently evil, while willing to accept any knave who calls themselves a Christian.
I am not worried so much about the killings in the Bible, as that is history, and will be made clear some day.
More disturbing is the general trend to believe that one's own faith and knowledge justify violating the free will of others, and that is still alive in our faith, as it is in Islam, and Judaism (visit the orthodox sections of Jerusalem on a Sabbath and witness the occasional destructive rampage of the orthodox into shops that are open, or that sell ipods, or that allow too much mingling between men and women).
But, specifically to our brother who sees Islam as the great and evil satan, based on recent events, please remember that Islam is roughly 1400 years old. At that point in the development of our faith, the reformation was largely ahead of us, let alone the enlightenment, or the notion that people should be free to seek God without the tender ministrations of the inquisitor. The catholic church ruled 99% of those who called themselves Christian, and put to sword and fire, not only the "infidels" but those who were not sufficiently catholic. We are lucky, at this point in the development of Islam that the support for bin laden (a good analogy to a dark ages pope, but without the influence or power) is so slight, and (at least in this country, which is our immediate concern) the overwhelming majority of Muslims concern themselves not with forcing others to do anything, but with taking care of their families, getting ahead in school, and ensuring a better life for their children.
How many here, I wonder, know some Muslims in real life?
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Yitzak,
Several years ago, while I was on staff at Weimar Institute, I visited the Ceres (near Modesto, CA) SDA Church. We had a potluck that day. Some church member found an Afghan refugee wandering in the park, and invited him to the potluck. I found him and his family eating alone at a table. My wife and I joined them. I had learned some things about Muslims. I started talking to him. I was too far across the table for me to put my hands on his shoulders! But I could and I did look him straight in the eyes. Most Americans look just past a person's eyes. We had an ordinary friendly conversation. But at the end of the meal, he was my "best friend!"
Nothing would do but for me and my wife to have dinner with them. I knew that would be rice and lamb -- and me a vegetarian. And I also knew that he would NOT understand if I told him that. So we had rice and lamb (it tasted good!). We had a very pleasant visit. Unfortunately, I had to return to Weimar and could not continue the friendship.
We have to realize that not all muslims are "Jihadists" Probably only a minority are. However we also have to realize that the Jihadists probably now rule the muslim movement. This is a threat to our society that so far, we do not know how to meet, but individual Muslims deserve and need our friendship.
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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Thank you, Brother Sturges. I asked the question and you answered it, most beautifully. I am also blessed to have several muslim friends and have attended several times the family meal that breaks the fast of ramadan. Wonderful food and wonderful hospitality, and genuine open-ness and kindness.
(I am not a vegetarian, so I had less of an issue than you may have, but you will never have to worry about a Muslim host serving you pork or alcohol- in that sense, it's much more comfortable than visits with several Christian friends who do both of those things).
Our friends visit us as well, and we talk about the similarities and differences in our religions- we pray for them, and they pray for us, and say so- when a muslim friend had a family member with cancer, our congregation prayed for her and them, and she was grateful. She in turn will tell us frequently that she prays for us.
The young women in the families wear the hijab, but also wear jeans and sweatshirts; the boys play soccer. They pray five times a day. More structured than I would prefer for myself to be sure, but if we Christians were as devoted to prayer as they are, we'd be so much better off.
Incidentally, the physician that has been with me for years is also a muslim and the kindest man you'd want to meet.
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