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In this thread I plan to outline why SDAs are not progressing further than simple doctrine such as the Sabbath and are missing the bigger discussion of the Gospel and Salvation. Stay tuned.
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First, we have to have a good understanding of Covenants. The Worldwide Church of God went through a study on this, and I will be using them at first. I will be looking for as good or better sources on the Covenants, but until then here is the source of the study:
In the search our site: type Covenants
Covenants in the Bible
To understand the old and new covenants, we need to first understand what the word covenant means. In simple terms, it is a formal agreement. It may be an agreement between two people, a treaty between nations (for examples, see appendix 1 below), or a relationship between God and a human individual or nation. A covenant is more personal than a contract — it involves loyalty and allegiance, not just a financial exchange.
God has made several agreements or covenants with humans. He gives commands and makes promises. What does he command? What promises has he made?
This paper surveys every biblical covenant. In the conclusion, we will give special attention to passages in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews that clarify the difference between the old covenant made at Mt. Sinai and the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
Of greatest importance today are the covenants that God made with the patriarchs and the nation of Israel. God called Abram out of Mesopotamia and promised to give his offspring the land of Canaan (Gen. 12:1-7). Abram went to Egypt, returned to Canaan, was generous to Lot, rescued Lot and gave tithes to Melchizedek (Gen. 12-14).
God then reaffirmed his promise that Abram would have offspring (15:1-4). God promised that Abram's descendants would be as numerous as the stars (15:5). This was a phenomenal promise, but "Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness" (15:6). Paul develops this statement further in Rom 4 and Gal 3.
God then repeated his promise to give Abram the land of Canaan, and Abram asked for evidence (Gen. 15:7-8). So God asked for some animals, and Abram cut in half a heifer, a goat and a ram, and also offered a dove and a pigeon (15:9-10). He arranged the pieces, but did not burn them.
God caused Abram to fall into a deep sleep, and in a dream God affirmed that Abram himself would not possess the land, but his descendants would. A smoking firepot and a blazing torch then passed between the pieces of the sacrificed animals. In ancient custom, people making a covenant walked between the halves of a sacrificed animal as part of their oaths (Jer. 34:18-19 shows this ancient custom, as does the Hebrew idiom for making a covenant —- literally, cutting a covenant).
In this dream and covenant, God was giving Abram evidence that his descendants would possess the land of Canaan. This covenant that God made with the father of the faithful is also referred to in Neh. 9:8 and Gal 3:17.
Many years later, God confirmed his covenant, changing Abram's name to Abraham, since he would be the father of not just one nation, but of many nations (Gen. 17:1-6). He promised to renew the covenant with Abram's descendants —- not only that they would be numerous, but also that he would be their God (17:7). This is more than the original covenant promised. God also required more from Abraham and his descendants: Circumcision was to be the sign of the covenant (17:9-14). The covenant was both renewed and expanded. Circumcision — cutting the foreskin — was a continuing reminder that God had cut a covenant with Abraham and his descendants. This covenant is referred to in Acts 7:8 and Rom 4:11.
God promised that Abraham would have children not only through Hagar but also through Sarah (Gen. 17:15-17), and God promised to renew the covenant with Isaac (17:19-21).
At Bethel, God gave similar promises to Jacob (28:10-15; 35:11-13). We are not specifically told that this was a covenant, but it apparently was.1 God referred to his covenant with Jacob and his covenant with Isaac and his covenant with Abraham, as if they were three distinct covenants (Lev 26:42), but he could also refer to them as one single covenant, since they contained the same promises (Ex 2:24; 2 Kings 13:23). The same basic covenant was renewed with each generation. Peter mentioned the covenant that God made with the fathers (plural), characterized by the promise given to Abraham (Acts 3:25). This covenant is also referred to in Ex 6:4-5.
Last edited by bob_2 (04-08-10 2:47 pm)
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Continued from above:
The covenant at Mt. Sinai
God remembered the covenant he had made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and he brought their descendants out of slavery in Egypt. While they were on their way to the land of Canaan, God made a covenant with them at Mt. Sinai. As their ruler, he gave laws, and they agreed to keep them. "If you obey me fully and keep my covenant," he told them through Moses, "then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession.... You will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Ex 19:5-6).
The people said they would do everything the Lord had said (19:8). After God spoke the Ten Commandments, the people asked Moses to be their mediator for the remainder of the covenant (20:1-19). Through Moses, God then gave regulations about altars (20:22-26), servants and slaves (21:1-11), murder and sins against others (21:12-32), sins against personal property (21:33-22:15) and other laws of social responsibility (22:16-27; 23:1-9). There were rules about blasphemy, cursing, offerings, firstlings (22:28-30), Sabbath years and days, Holy Days and offerings (23:10-19). God spoke all these laws, and then promised to give the people the land of Canaan (23:20-31).
The Abrahamic covenant, although it included obligations, stressed God's promise. The Sinaitic covenant, although it included mercy and promises, stressed human responsibilities. Moses told the people the laws, and the people said, "Everything the Lord has said we will do" (24:3). And Moses wrote it all down.
The next day, they had sacrifices, Moses read the book of the covenant,2 and the people again agreed to obey (24:4-7). So Moses sprinkled blood on the people, saying, "This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words" (24:8). As Heb. 9:18-20 says, the first covenant was put into effect with blood. An animal was cut, and the people came under the covenant by being sprinkled with its blood.
The Ten Commandments formed the core of this covenant. "The words of the covenant —- the Ten Commandments" —- were written on tablets of stone (Ex 34:28). Although the covenant was equated with the Ten Commandments (Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13), the covenant included all of Ex 20-23. The Lord wrote "the law and commands I have written for their instruction" (Ex 24:12).
The tablets of stone were called the "tablets of the covenant" (Deut 9:9, 11, 15; Heb. 9:4). They were placed in the ark of the covenant (Ex 25:16, 21; 31:18), thus giving a name to the ark, and the covenant was said to be inside the ark (1 Kings 8:21; 2 Chron. 6:11).
In this covenant, the people agreed to be servants of God, and he agreed to protect them. The covenant was made not only with Israel as a nation, but also with Moses as its leader (Ex 34:10, 27). Many of the laws in Ex 34 are quoted from Ex 23. It was a covenant renewal or restatement with some variations. Heb. 9:1 says that original covenant also included regulations for worship and the sanctuary (Ex 25-30). The covenant was developed as time went on.
Although the Sabbath was part of the Ten Commandments (20:8-11), and part of the larger covenant (23:12), it was made its own covenant in Ex 31:16. Just as circumcision was an everlasting covenant and a sign of Abraham's covenant (Gen. 17:10-11), the Sabbath was also called a sign and an everlasting covenant (31:12, 16-17). Just as circumcision was a covenant in conjunction with the Abrahamic covenant, the Sabbath was a covenant in conjunction with the Sinaitic covenant.
Also in conjunction with the Sinaitic covenant was the weekly showbread, which was also called an everlasting covenant (Lev 24:8). An everlasting covenant was made with the priesthood, too (Num. 18:19; 25:13). Grain offerings were covenantized, too, since God commanded, "Do not leave the salt of the covenant of your God out of your grain offerings" (Lev 2:13).
Last edited by bob_2 (04-08-10 2:46 pm)
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Continued from above:
Covenant renewals
When the Israelites were ready to enter the promised land, Moses repeated to them the laws of God (Deut 1:1-5). He rehearsed some history, reminded the Israelites to obey God and worship him only, and he repeated the Ten Commandments. Although the people he was talking to were either not yet born or only children at Horeb (Mt. Sinai), Moses said that God had made the Sinaitic covenant with them, not with their parents (5:2-3).3
Moses not only repeated the Ten Commandments, but gave numerous other laws as well (Deut 6–26). After he described blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience, he led the people to covenant anew with God to be his people. Most of the book of Deuteronomy then forms the "terms of the covenant the Lord commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb" (29:1). The covenant was renewed and expanded. This Deuteronomic covenant was built on the foundation of the Sinaitic covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Moses reminded the people that they were making a covenant with the Lord not only for themselves but also for their descendants (29:12-14), and he exhorted them to be faithful to this covenant (29:9). This was a confirmation of the covenant God had made with the patriarchs (29:13) — it was a development from that patriarchal covenant. Moses wrote down the Deuteronomic law, and it was placed beside (not in) the ark of the covenant (31:9, 24-26).
The covenant was renewed in the days of Joshua (Josh 24:1-24), Asa (2 Chron. 15:12) and in the days of Joash (23:16). Hezekiah planned to make a covenant with God (29:10). Josiah and the Jews renewed the covenant, apparently the Deuteronomic law (2 Kings 23:3; 2 Chron. 34:31-32). Jeremiah called the people to obey the terms of the covenant they had made when their forefathers came out of Egypt (Jer. 11:2-6).4 In Jeremiah's day, the people made a covenant with God (34:15), but they were going back on it, and God would treat them "like the calf they cut in two and then walked between its pieces" (34:18).
Yet another covenant was made in the days of Ezra, in which the people agreed to put away their foreign wives and children (Ezra 10:3).
Throughout Israel's history, covenant was an important concept. They were the "people of the covenant land" (Eze. 30:5); their ruler was "the prince of the covenant" (Dan 11:22). An attack on the Jews was considered an attack "against the holy covenant" (11:28, 30). Paul noted that one of the advantages of the people of Israel is that they had the (plural) "covenants of the promise" (Rom 9:4; Eph 2:12).
Last edited by bob_2 (04-08-10 2:51 pm)
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Continued from above:
A new covenant prophesied
However, something was seriously wrong with the Israelite covenant. The people did not have the heart to obey, and God knew it (Deut 31:16-21, 27-29). Unlike Abraham, they did not believe and were not faithful (Heb. 3:19). The fault was with the people (Heb. 8:7-8).
The Sinaitic covenant had regulations for worship, but it could not transform the heart or the conscience (Heb. 9:9), and yet that is what people really need. The priests had to serve continually, but the high priest could approach God's throne only once a year. This indicated that the sacrificial rituals were not effective (Heb. 9:7-9; 10:1-3). The people's minds were dull; they could not understand (Matt 13:14-15; 19:8; 2 Cor 4:4), so they remained in the slavery of sin.
Therefore, God predicted a new covenant. He hinted at it even in the old — he said that, after his people had been sent into captivity because they had broken the covenant, he would regather them and "circumcise your hearts" (Deut 4:25-31; 30:4-10).
The prophets predicted a new covenant between God and humans —- a new basis of relationship. There would be no need for this new covenant, of course, unless the old were deficient.
In a messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus Christ, Isaiah noted that God would make the Servant "to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles" (Isa. 42:6; 42:7 is similar to 61:1, which is quoted in Luke 4:18). The Servant himself would be the covenant —- he would be the basis of the relationship for both Jews and Gentiles. This was fulfilled in Jesus, for he shed his blood, and it is only through him that we may enter God's holy nation. Mal 3:1 predicted that the Lord would be the messenger of the new covenant.
Isaiah again predicted that God would make the Servant to be a covenant for the people in the day of salvation (Isa. 49:8). Just as God had sworn to Noah that he would never again destroy the earth with a flood, he will never remove this "covenant of peace" (54:9-10). "Come to me, all you who are thirsty," God calls (55:1), a scripture fulfilled in Jesus Christ (John 7:37). "Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you" (Isa. 55:3).
"The Redeemer will come to Zion," Isa. 59:20 prophesies, "to those in Jacob who repent of their sins." God will make a covenant with these repentant people. His Spirit will be upon them, and his words will remain in them (59:21). They will keep the covenant because they will be changed on the inside.
Isaiah 61 was also fulfilled by Jesus. God's Spirit was upon him, so he preached good news, freedom and comfort (61:1-2; Luke 4:18-21). Isaiah predicted a nation of priests (61:6) who will receive a great inheritance (61:7). God will "make an everlasting covenant with them" (61:8).
We are familiar with Jer. 31:31-33, since it is quoted in Hebrews. Jeremiah predicted a new covenant, which the people will not break, because God's law will be in their minds and hearts. All the people will know the Lord, their sins will be forgiven (31:34), and God will never reject the people (31:35-37).
In other prophecies of regathering, Jeremiah predicted an everlasting covenant (32:40), in which the people will never turn away from fearing God (32:38-40; 50:5).
Ezekiel also foresaw that God would remember the covenant and regather the people; he will then "establish an everlasting covenant with you." He will make atonement for the people, and they will be repentant (Eze. 16:60-62). After gathering them, he will make "a covenant of peace" with them, an everlasting covenant (34:25; 36:27; 37:26). Hosea 2:18 describes a similar covenant.
All these prophets predicted a new covenant, a new basis of relationship with God. This covenant will repair the defective hearts of the people, and will therefore not need to be replaced. It will be an everlasting covenant of peace, a covenant of reconciliation.
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Continued from above
Jesus and the new covenant
At the Last Supper, Jesus proclaimed that the wine-cup represented his own blood, which would be the blood of the new covenant (Mt 26:28; Mk 14:24; Heb. 10:29). The cup represented the "new covenant in my blood" (Luke 22:20; 1 Cor 11:25). Just as the Sinaitic covenant was sealed with blood, so also the new covenant was ratified when Jesus' blood was poured out on the cross. We renew that covenant and reaffirm our commitment to it when we drink the wine and eat the bread, remembering the Lord's death until he returns. The Lord's Supper is a visible and tangible reminder of the covenant. But the wine is not sprinkled on the surface of the people —- it is swallowed. The new covenant affects our innermost being.
The new covenant is superior to the old, for it has been founded on better promises (Heb. 8:6). The old covenant could never make anyone perfect; no one could meet its righteous demands. It has now become "obsolete" (8:13); its laws are "set aside"5 (7:18; 10:9) —- replaced by a better hope, better promises and an effective transformation of the heart, a transformation that begins with faith.
Jesus Christ is the Messenger and Mediator of the new covenant (Heb. 8:6; 12:24). He is also the sacrifice —- he himself is the new covenant. His teachings are the requirements of the covenant. Faith is required for participation in it. The Holy Spirit is given to transform the heart, and eternal life is the promised inheritance. It is an eternal covenant (13:20), guaranteed by Jesus (7:22). His blood has made us perfect, and he is making us holy (10:10, 14).
The new covenant has phenomenal promises, and all who believe them are counted as righteous. They are considered as faithful to the terms of the covenant. Their allegiance (loyalty and obedience) is given to Jesus Christ.
Our relationship with God is based on the new covenant. God takes away our sins (Rom 11:27). Jesus "died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant" (Heb. 9:15). God's Spirit gives us life (2 Cor 3:6). He puts the terms of the covenant within our hearts and minds so we can be faithful to him (Heb. 8:7-10; 10:16). We may therefore "receive the promised eternal inheritance" (Heb. 9:15).
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Continued from above:
Terms of the new covenant
We now come to the most important part of this paper. The new covenant has been made, and the old covenant is obsolete (Heb. 8:13). What then are the terms of the new covenant? Is it simply faith and Spirit added to the old rules? No. Some of the old rules are obsolete.
The book of Hebrews explains that the sacrifices, for example, are done away. Hebrews does not say that the sacrifices are obsolete because they were later additions to the covenant. Rather, it is the Sinaitic covenant itself that is obsolete. There has been a change of the law (Heb. 7:12). Levites administered the old covenant; Christian ministers administer the new covenant, not the old.
When we compare the new covenant with the old, we see both similarities and differences. Some laws of the old covenant are continued into the new. The Tenth Commandment, for example, is quoted in the New Testament. As another example, we should still obey Ex 22:22: "Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan." Even though this commandment is not quoted in the New Testament, the principle is still valid.
Other laws are transformed in the way we apply them. Take Ex 22:19, for example: "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death." The prohibition is valid, but the church does not enforce the punishment. Today, we would put such a person out of our fellowship until repentance, instead of killing the offender. Part of the law is valid, and part is not.
Some laws are simply discontinued, such as Ex 20:24: "Make an altar of earth for me." And Ex 22:29-30: "You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep." The promises of the old covenant are also discontinued — Christians do not expect God to drive the Canaanites out of the land.
The old covenant was a package of laws and promises between God and his people. That package is now obsolete. Although some laws in the old covenant continue to be valid, others have ceased to be valid. We cannot assume that any particular law is valid simply on the basis of it being commanded in the old covenant.
This principle is taught in Gal 3:17: "The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise." Paul is not singling out ritualistic laws. He is talking about the entire package of laws that was given four centuries after Abraham. The Sinaitic laws cannot do away with the promises God gave to Abraham.
In other words, once a promise has been given, conditions cannot be added (3:15). God knew in advance that the Israelites could not obey the covenant he gave them, and he did not use their disobedience to abandon the promises he had given to Abraham. The old covenant was an addition, given for a temporary purpose. It is now expired, no longer in effect.
The Galatian Christians had received the Holy Spirit by believing the gospel (3:2, 5). By believing, they became children of Abraham (3:7, 29) and partakers of his blessing (3:9, 14). The Galatian believers had the same covenant with God that Abraham did, and so do Christians today. Paul is explaining that our inheritance depends on promise (3:18), not on the law of Moses. We are children of God by faith, not by law (3:26).
In other words, our relationship with God is based on faith and promise, just as Abraham's was. We are justified by faith and saved by promise —- by grace. Laws that were added at Sinai cannot change the promise given to Abraham, nor can those laws change the promise given to us, since we are Abraham's children by faith. God gave his oath to Abraham, and he cannot break his promise by introducing new requirements (3:15). The promise still stands.
Even circumcision, which was given to Abraham as a sign of the covenant, cannot change the original promise, which was given on the basis of faith. Paul points out that Abraham was declared righteous, and therefore acceptable to God, while he was uncircumcised (Rom 4:9-11). The promise in Gen. 15 was given without conditions. Abraham is therefore the father of all who have faith, whether they are circumcised or not, and all who have faith can be heirs of the original promise (Rom 4:16). Circumcision, the sign of the covenant, is now a matter of the heart (Rom 2:29). Obedience should be in our hearts.
However, no one obeys perfectly. Everyone breaks the law. Law cannot give life (Gal 3:21, 10-12). It was never meant to be a means of salvation. All it can do is condemn us. So what was its purpose? It was added because of transgressions and was to be in force only until Christ came (3:19). It held us prisoners (3:23). Why? "The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith" (3:24). The law helps us see what sin is, our need for forgiveness, our need for grace, our need for a Savior, and our need for faith.
"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law" (3:25). The law — meaning the covenant added 430 years after Abraham — was temporary, added until the coming of the "Seed" the promise referred to — Christ (3:19). The old covenant was a temporary addition, and it is now obsolete.
By establishing the new covenant, Jesus set aside the first covenant (Heb. 10:9). He did away with many laws, but he also reaffirmed many laws and stressed that obedience should begin in the heart. He also added commands not found in the old covenant at all. The new covenant has many laws of its own.
Faith in Christ means allegiance to him. Faith produces obedience to the laws of the new covenant. All that the Lord has said, we should obey. We look to Jesus' teachings, and the teachings of his inspired apostles, to see the way that Christian faith should work in our lives. Since we always fall short of these New Testament commands, however, they continue to show us our need for salvation by grace through faith in our Savior.
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Continued from above:
Righteousness by faith
No one can be declared righteous by observing the law (Rom 3:20). The law cannot give eternal life (Gal 3:21). But the gospel reveals a way in which we can be declared righteous —- a way that was predicted by the Law and the Prophets (Rom 3:21; Acts 10:43). "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe" (Rom 3:22). We can be "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (3:24).
God gave his unique Son as a sacrifice of atonement so that God can, according to his perfect justice, declare believers justified — righteous (3:25-26). No one can boast about observing the law, since the only way anyone can be justified is "by faith apart from observing the law" (3:28). We are accounted as righteous on the basis of faith, and we are given salvation by grace. If we don't believe that salvation is a gift, then it won't be given to us. If we want to be judged by our works, we will be found guilty. But if we believe that salvation comes only by grace, God forgives our sins because Jesus died for us; it is because of his one great sacrifice that God can forgive all our sins. We are counted as acceptable to God if we have faith in Jesus Christ.
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God" (Rom 5:1-2).
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit" (8:1-4).
Since the law could not transform us and could not give us eternal life, God did what the law could not do. He did it by sending his Son as a sacrifice on our behalf. Through faith, through Jesus Christ, we can be declared righteous — and we are led by the Holy Spirit and changed in the heart. As we remain in Christ Jesus through faith in him, we are counted among the righteous, not among the condemned.
Christians today have a new relationship with God —- a covenant based on faith, a faith that is willing to obey God. But we do not obey according to the old letter or the old covenant, but according to the new, according to the Spirit (2 Cor 3:6). We are ministers of a new covenant, servants of God based on new terms of relationship. The old covenant, with laws that humans were unable to keep, brought condemnation and death. But the glorious new covenant brings life and righteousness (3:7-9). The law brings condemnation; the ministry of the Spirit brings justification and righteousness (3:8-9). In this passage, Paul is emphasizing the differences between the old covenant and the new.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom" (3:17). We are forgiven and freed from old covenant regulations, and we now serve Christ by obeying the precepts of the new covenant. That is the ministry Paul was committed to —- preaching the gospel of the glory of Christ (4:1-5). With assurance of salvation, Paul was zealous to preach the gospel (4:13-18).
In Gal 4:21-25, Paul drew an allegory based on Abraham's two sons. Hagar, the slave woman, represented the covenant made at Sinai, with its physical center in Jerusalem. Children of this covenant are slaves, under the law. In contrast, Sarah represents the new covenant, from above, because her child was the product of promise.
We are children of promise (4:28), and we are free (4:26, 31). Christ has set us free, and we are not to be enslaved by the yoke of the old covenant (5:1), not even by the circumcision that came before that covenant (5:2).6 But our freedom is not freedom for sin —- it is for service (5:13). We become slaves of righteousness, exhorted to be transformed in our innermost being, exhorted to conform to the perfection of Jesus Christ, exhorted to abide by New Testament commands.
Paul makes a contrast between freedom in Christ and "the whole law" (5:1-3). The whole Mosaic law, as a package regulating a people's relationship with God, is obsolete. "The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love" (5:6). We are declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law. Although faith is accompanied by works (Rom 1:5; 6:17; 12:6-21; James 2:14-17), it is the faith and not the works that is the basis of our justification and the basis of our relationship with God —- the basis of the new covenant in Jesus Christ.
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Continued from above:
Old and new in Hebrews
The book of Hebrews explains more about the old covenant and the new. Jesus is our eternal High Priest, but he is not a priest according to the old covenant, since he is not a Levite. But the priesthood of physical rites had been given to Levi as an everlasting covenant! So the change in priesthood implies the end of the old covenant and a change in the nature of sacrifices (Heb. 7:12-14). The old no longer applies; the Israelites had been so consistently disobedient, even to point of crucifying the Son of God, that the agreement was replaced with a new covenant.
The former regulation, the old covenant with its Levitical assignments, was "set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God" (7:18-19). The new covenant has better promises, and by it we are reconciled to God by the death of his Son. We have guaranteed access to God through our High Priest. Because Jesus lives forever, he is able to save us all (7:24-25).
We needed grace and salvation, and Jesus Christ meets that need (7:26). The book of Hebrews emphasizes that we have a new High Priest (8:1), and that implies a new covenant. Just as the Levites administered the old covenant, the terms of the old relationship between God and Israel, so also the ascended Jesus administers the terms of the new relationship for all who come to God through him (8:6).
The new covenant's better promises include forgiveness, a cleansing of the conscience, which the old covenant could not do, and an internalization of the relationship between us and God. Each person will know God (8:6-12). There is therefore no longer any need for the old covenant (8:13). Why should we choose slavery when freedom is available?
The new covenant will not be like the old covenant (8:5); the people will be able to meet the conditions of the new covenant. That doesn't mean that they will miraculously become able to obey all the old laws perfectly —- rather, it means new terms of relationship. The external regulations applied only "until the time of the new order" (9:10). The worship rules were temporary. The animal sacrifices and regulations about ceremonial cleanness have been superseded by real forgiveness and cleansed consciences (9:13-14).
Christ set aside the first covenant when he established the second (10:9); the old is obsolete (8:13). There is continuity in that God requires faith and allegiance, but there is discontinuity in regulations, mediation, and spiritual status. Grace is made much more evident.
The blood of Christ, the blood of the new covenant, is able to cleanse our consciences, so that we may serve God (9:14). We have direct access, and we receive a better inheritance —- eternal life —- which we already possess as a down payment guaranteeing our future. Christ was sacrificed once, bearing our sins. When he returns, he will bring salvation (9:28). He has made us perfect (10:14). He has declared us righteous. Can we believe these promises of God? If we do, we have the faith of Abraham.
"Therefore, brothers," the writer of Hebrews continues, "since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus...since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith" (10:19-22).
Moreover, our faith-based relationship with God has practical consequences in our relationships with other people: "Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another —- and all the more as you see the Day approaching" (10:24-25).
Forgiveness has ethical consequences. Because of who Jesus is and what he has done for us, we ought to do something in response. "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God —- this is your spiritual act of worship" (Rom 12:1).
"You were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Cor 6:20). "Thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain" (1 Cor 15:57-58).
"It is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident.... So we make it our goal to please him" (2 Cor 5:5-9). "Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again" (5:14-15).
Numerous verses could be added, but 2 Cor 5:15 summarizes it nicely. We are to live for Jesus Christ, to his honor and glory. All our lives ought to be dedicated to his service, because his life was given to serve us. If we have faith, we will obey, and our faith will be counted as righteousness. That's the new covenant, the terms of the new relationship God has with humans through his Son who died for us.
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If the SDA church hangs on to the 1st Covenant, without the correct understanding of the New Covenant and how man is to relate to it and how we should worship and behave in the New Covenant Era, IT is likely to require salvific compliance that does not match up with the New Covenant.
When you read about EGW's vision of a halo around the 4th Commandment, it has to set up some sort of dissonance when under the New Covenant, the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ. Think about that. EGW asked us to test anything she said against scripture. When you do, this vision as a guide in the mid 1800s, must come into question.
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I just came across this thread. Here is a quote from your last post:
the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ. Think about that.
I'm just curious, where in the Bible does it say that the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ, and no longer needs to be kept?
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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Hubb:
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
Soul rest going to be given by the Lord, and "He refreshes my soul."
Also:
Galatians 3:19
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
This text says the Law was until the Seed (Jesus shall com ). Paul talks of a Christ's Law later in the Epistles:
1 Corinthians 9:21
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law
Adventists are afraid that no standards of behavior are present when the Decalogue is "archived". Christ's Law is not studied by the Adventist's even when Christ opened the eyes of the disciple, (above) and Paul said that he was under it. Also, do you, Hubb, believer that the Decalogue was God's Heavenly Eternal Law, the Law that Luciifer broke and a 1/3 of the angels broke and were cast out. How could it be when the 4th comments on things that were not present in heaven, "slaves", etc.
Last edited by bob_2 (12-28-11 7:52 pm)
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Hi Hubert, I believe you will readily conclude that the "ceremonial" (Scripture doesn't really break the law down in segments) part of the old covenant law was fulfilled at the Cross. At least the SDA Church promotes this. Where do you find that it only included parts of the Law?
I believe in Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." it is clear that Jesus was referring to the whole law given only to the Israelites. The whole law has to include the Sabbath law. Reading Jesus clear words there in Matt makes me conclude He was referring to all the Torah law. How can you justify any other conclusion? Jesus said not one letter would disappear. I take that as meaning every part of the law would remain in effect until He fulfilled the whole law. Did that happened at the Cross or didn't it? If you say no then you also have to say that the Ceremonial part remains because He was very explicit in telling us every part of it remains until everything is fulfilled.
That fact plus Paul's conformation in 2Cor 3 that the 10 Commandments have faded with the implantation of the Holy Spirit pretty much clinches it. We are now under the power of the Holy Spirit. The Sabbath command was part of the 10, so Bob2 is right on the Beam. How can anyone argue with plain scripture?
If that is not enough to convince a true believer lets go to Col 2 where Paul tells us that the Sabbath was a mere shadow of the reality. The reality being Jesus.
I pray this will help. Bob
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I agree with Bob's point I have never thought of. If the Law was all the 613, you go against the text that not one jot or tittle will disappear, if you don't show tham the ceremonial and civic law were done away with you should be worshipping with orthodox Jews. They don't believe anything happened at the cross either.
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Bob_2, You quote these texts:
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms” (Luke 2:44).
Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator" (Galatians 3:19).
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law" (1 Corinthians 9:21).
"Everything must be fulfilled' Jesus did fulfill the ceremonial law by His death on the cross. He did fulfill the moral law by His sinless life. This included all 10 of the commandments. You cannot separate out one commandment without destroying the whole law.
"The law was added until the seed had come" Again, this is talking about the whole law, not just the Sabbath.
"though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law" This quotation seems to be against your argument. "God's law" is made the same as "Christ's law" in this quotation. Again, it does not separate out the Sabbath from the rest of the law.
About Colossians 2, the Sabbath was not a shadow of anything. It WAS a Memorial of Creation.
No Sabbath in Heaven? See Isaiah 66:23.
The original question was that Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, and that it was no longer in effect. A rather strange argument.
Also, do you, Hubb, believer that the Decalogue was God's Heavenly Eternal Law, the Law that Luciifer broke and a 1/3 of the angels broke and were cast out. How could it be when the 4th comments on things that were not present in heaven, "slaves", etc.
The principle of the 10 commandments is the eternal law of God. There would have to be adjustments where there is no day or night as in heaven, or where the orbits are different as on different planets. But the principle of a memorial to creation would be met in some other way. Satan in his rebellion, chose self instead of the Creator God, he blasphemed the name of God in his accusations, he was a murderer and a liar. He coveted something that was not his. and so on. No question Lucifer did break the ten commandment law in several areas, if not all.
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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In one place, the Sabbath is stated as a memorial to Creation. In another, a memorial to the Jewish Exodus out of Egypt that points only to the obligation of one people. If you were a bird watcher, and you only stated certain unique qualities of a rare bird you saw on a morning watch, if your friend on his same walk saw the same bird but stated other unique characteristics, your friend would think you to be crazy to tell him he never saw the same unique bird based on only your statement of the characteristics you noticed. That is like the Sabbath Exodus 20 says one thing about it, Lev 23 says another, and Dec 5 another and 2 Cor 3 and Col 2 state other things about the Sabbath. But the reading of the whole Bible gives us the whole TRUTH about the Sabbath. And we have to also deal with:
Romans 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
and finally, how can the SDA Church name their Church so uniquely after reading this passage:
Romans 14
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Last edited by bob_2 (12-29-11 7:46 pm)
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Because the Sabbath is a memorial of the Exodus, that does not mean that it is not a memorial of Creation also! The different things that the Sabbath represents points to the broad meaning of the Sabbath. God is not in a box!
But we are getting away from the question: which is "Does Jesus fulfill the Sabbath?" The answer is YES! He does fulfill the Sabbath by going to the synagogue every Sabbath and keeping it. By being the Lord of the Sabbath. If a person desires to "follow Him" he will keep the Sabbath.
The prophetic meaning of the Sabbath is critical for this time. In the Sabbath we obey the will of God, and recognize Him as Creator and owner of this earth. We put aside daily work for 24 hours and spend that time in fellowship with Him. It is also the sign of our sanctification.
What can we say about Sunday worship? The name itself is revealing. The apostate church adopted the day that reverences the Sun in order to gain the followers of sun-worshipers. Sunday worship has come to mean even more. It has been adopted as the sign of authority of the apostate church. Protestant church in keeping Sunday also give homage to a human and apostate institution. Revelation 7 and 13 indicate this will be a critical issue, dividing those who love God from those who don't in the end time. And lastly, Sabbath is a dedication of 24 hours to worship of God, not a 2 hour perfunctory church attendance as is seen in Sunday worship.
Do Adventists "worship a day?" A strange question. We worship God by meeting with Him on the day He made holy.
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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Because the Sabbath is a memorial of the Exodus, that does not mean that it is not a memorial of Creation also! The different things that the Sabbath represents points to the broad meaning of the Sabbath. God is not in a box!
I don't see that Bob_2 did that Hubert. SDAs don't typically refer to the Deut version. Why? because it would mess up your "Sabbath was made for mankind" sometime back before creation week theory. Deut says the Sabbath was made for the Israelites only to celebrate their release from Egypt. Your continual use of the Exodus account is a bit disturbing. If it was made for the Israelites only and it surely was not made in Genesis for Adam and Eve nor was it made for the Gentile.
But we are getting away from the question: which is "Does Jesus fulfill the Sabbath?" The answer is YES! He does fulfill the Sabbath by going to the synagogue every Sabbath and keeping it. By being the Lord of the Sabbath. If a person desires to "follow Him" he will keep the Sabbath.
Your big problem is that you don't consider the ceremonial law the same as Sabbath. The one you say is just history because Jesus did it and fulfilled it we don't have to do it and the other because Jesus did it we should "follow Him" and do it. You confuse me on the issue. Your theory about "following Him" would mean that if Jesus kept the festivals, we should do likewise. If Jesus wore a robe we should do likewise. Are you following me?
The prophetic meaning of the Sabbath is critical for this time. In the Sabbath we obey the will of God, and recognize Him as Creator and owner of this earth. We put aside daily work for 24 hours and spend that time in fellowship with Him. It is also the sign of our sanctification.
Why would anyone need to serve a day in recognition when the Creator has revealed Himself to us in the flesh and we can recognize and fellowship with Him everyday through the power of the Spirit? Today, when you hear His voice, worship Him. Jesus is our rest.
Please show us where Sabbath is a sign of sanctification. Remember we do not adhere to ellen's addition to scripture.
What can we say about Sunday worship? The name itself is revealing. The apostate church adopted the day that reverences the Sun in order to gain the followers of sun-worshipers. Sunday worship has come to mean even more. It has been adopted as the sign of authority of the apostate church. Protestant church in keeping Sunday also give homage to a human and apostate institution. Revelation 7 and 13 indicate this will be a critical issue, dividing those who love God from those who don't in the end time. And lastly, Sabbath is a dedication of 24 hours to worship of God, not a 2 hour perfunctory church attendance as is seen in Sunday worship.
Do Adventists "worship a day?" A strange question. We worship God by meeting with Him on the day He made holy.
Why do you say all other Christians worship and "keep" Sunday when you deny SDAs worship Saturday. God made the "day" holy for the Israelites as already proven above in Deut. Most Christians never tell anyone, nor do we believe that Sunday is a holy day. People who assemble on Sunday are not "keeping" it. Why do you insist on telling the World that we believe it is holy and we are keeping it? That was 18th Century news. Labeling us as worshiping and keeping Sunday is a misnomer and should be considered an untruth. We use Sunday as a day of congregational worship. Is that a sin?
Taking Rev out of context and spreading man made theory about who is the beast and making up hypothesis is a very slippery slop. First of all when you see "commands of God" you immediately assume it means 10 commandments. John explains in 1Jn 3 what he means about God's commands and it doesn't say 10 commands, it says 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
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Bob,
just to clear up one item: 1 Peter 2:9 uses the same language of the Sinai covenant and applies it to the church. Galatians 3:29 is very clear: "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." God has just one way to save people. As Jesus said, "salvation is of the Jews." Your salvation is in being adopted into the tree of Judaism.
The ceremonial law, specifically the sacrifices, were to point forward to a Redeemer who would die to pay the penalty for our sins. It was a temporary law that Christ fulfilled at Calvary. Some parts of the ceremonial law are eternal, but that is a long discussion.
The Sabbath is entirely different. It is in the center of the eternal ten commandment law. When God made man in the image of God, this ten commandment law was written on their hearts. Without a belief in the Genesis account of Creation, there is no Christianity. The Sabbath is the seal set in the middle of the ten commandment law showing God as Creator, a memorial to His creation, and claiming heaven and earth as His domain. The ten commandment law is a permanent eternal law. There will be adjustments for locations where days and seasons are longer or shorter, or even non-existent; but the principles will be followed never the less. You asked the question: Exodus 31:13 speaks of the Sabbath as a sign that it is God that sanctifies us.
I did not say that "all other Christians worship Sunday." I fully realize that most (not all) other Christians do not "keep" Sunday. The comments that I made was to contrast how SDAs keep Sabbath and the purpose for that keeping as compared to the common "keeping" of Sunday. I will have to read it again. but Pope John Paul II is clear in saying that Sabbath keeping is central to our faith. He then goes on to say that the sabbath is Sunday, but his first statement is very true.
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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Hubb, you need to read Romans 11 with your discernment shades on. In one verse it says all Jews will be saved, in another He draws a word picture of the Jews being the dead branches on the ground. Notice the warning not to get too smug that you have it all right only to be one of the broken branches in the end. Hubb, you and Norris are a little too smug, as I see it. To me you two, plus the SDA church have made an idol out of a day of worship. Remember, a car, food, and other things can be idols. Soul Rest is what Jesus was speaking of and in the end is the goal of the Christian, not ends in themselves.
Matt11: 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Jesus is the rest we crave that no day off, or keeping (is it ok to splash your feet, what about swimming?) can give to us. Not everyone has had a vision with a halo around the 4th Commandment or can verify it, eh????As EGW asked us to do, test her words against the Word of God when in doubt.
The danger Hubb, that you have done with your forum, calling it the everlasting covenant cause mistakes like you have. Abraham's Promise never died or was fulfilled at the cross but was the reason we could be adopted into Christ's family. Notice the Jews failed in their unbelief. Notice that even though the Jews failed, the promise of Abraham did not but gave the strand that made us adopted sons, no, the Sabbath is not central here, but Abraham's faith and the gift of Christ death.
Romans 9
1 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.
God’s Sovereign Choice
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
Last edited by bob_2 (12-31-11 1:24 am)
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Bob,
just to clear up one item: 1 Peter 2:9 uses the same language of the Sinai covenant and applies it to the church. Galatians 3:29 is very clear: "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." God has just one way to save people. As Jesus said, "salvation is of the Jews." Your salvation is in being adopted into the tree of Judaism.
Please relate to me what "salvation is of the Jews." means. I personally do not connect Jn 4:22 as having anything to do with Gal 3. Abraham was not a Jew or if you prefer an Israelite. I,by becoming seed of Abraham by connecting with Jesus doesn't make me adopted into the tree of Judaism. I am greatfull for the Jews for being the linage chosen for Jesus to have come through. We owe them respect and gratitude for being part of the process, but Jews are in no way responsible for my salvation. I am grafted into Abraham through Jesus. It is a direct graft.
The ceremonial law, specifically the sacrifices, were to point forward to a Redeemer who would die to pay the penalty for our sins. It was a temporary law that Christ fulfilled at Calvary. Some parts of the ceremonial law are eternal, but that is a long discussion.
How can you say that friend, especially when you cannot defend what you are promoting with scripture. Jesus said the "law" would be fulfilled. He didn't break it down into segments. Your thoughts come from your prophet. Maybe you believe she was reliable, I don't. I have to go by Jesus own words. You have taken a stand for the prophet thus denying Jesus truth. I know you have said that her writings brought you to Christ. I am glad that something she wrote was inspiring. I found Christ through the scriptures. I didn't need a lesser light that is full of error so that we have to wonder when we read what she said.
The Sabbath is entirely different. It is in the center of the eternal ten commandment law. When God made man in the image of God, this ten commandment law was written on their hearts. Without a belief in the Genesis account of Creation, there is no Christianity. The Sabbath is the seal set in the middle of the ten commandment law showing God as Creator, a memorial to His creation, and claiming heaven and earth as His domain. The ten commandment law is a permanent eternal law. There will be adjustments for locations where days and seasons are longer or shorter, or even non-existent; but the principles will be followed never the less. You asked the question: Exodus 31:13 speaks of the Sabbath as a sign that it is God that sanctifies us.
Funny you believe the 10 are eternal. This SDA cliche has been worn out. What does the Sabbath aspire greater than any of the other commands by being in the middle? Cliches, cliches. Actually it isn't in the middle anymore than honoring our parents. We who have read the writings of Paul know that the 10 have faded. We know that John in 1Jn 3 21 says "Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us." We know we are in Christ not by "keeping the 10, but by believing in Jesus and loving one another.
Is the Sabbath the seal? I thought we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't that make Him the seal? Do we need two seals especially since Paul says we are not under the 10? 2Cor 3.
Ex 31: 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy." Hubert, who is 'you' in that verse? Yes, the Israelites. It WAS a sign to the Israelites not US. Please do not knowingly change the meaning of verses. It is a very deceptive act. If you need to prove a point do it with scripture that you don't have to manipulate. Thanks in advance.
I did not say that "all other Christians worship Sunday." I fully realize that most (not all) other Christians do not "keep" Sunday. The comments that I made was to contrast how SDAs keep Sabbath and the purpose for that keeping as compared to the common "keeping" of Sunday. I will have to read it again. but Pope John Paul II is clear in saying that Sabbath keeping is central to our faith. He then goes on to say that the sabbath is Sunday, but his first statement is very true.
Just how do Adventists keep Saturday? Do SDAs have a set of God given rules or a how to manual? What is the contrast? I guess I can go shopping after church and you all can't, but you think about going during Sabbath. Adventist's outward appearance may not tell, but their thoughts and words are not on Holy things. Does the fact that SDAs go to church cover for keeping the day holy? Remember you are not conversing with someone who has not tried keeping Sabbath and failed every week. Our grandson, who is Adventist, just got married and we were invited to a potluck on Sabbath before the Sunday wedding. Pastors were there, upstanding church members were there, a lot of SDA young people were there and you know what, I didn't see or hear anyone who was turning their feet from doing their own pleasure. All conversation was on secular topics. ellen would have had a seizure. And to think you all are attempting to do something not required for Christians. All the law was abrogated at the Cross. I pray this helps. Your friend in Christ, Bob
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Hubb said:
Because the Sabbath is a memorial of the Exodus, that does not mean that it is not a memorial of Creation also! The different things that the Sabbath represents points to the broad meaning of the Sabbath. God is not in a box!
Both characteristic must be present to be saved from Egypt and be created by God. Hubb, we are not those people that have both characteristic. And we are living after the Seed has come The Law was given until then. We are now under Christ's Law as was Paul.
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Amen Bob_2 If the law is still in force then Paul is a liar. Paul didn't say the ceremonial law was till Christ. He said the law, which means all 613 laws of the Torah have been abrogated. To try to say otherwise is foolish. The only reason anyone would try to defend otherwise would be to cow to the agenda of Ellen White. The prophet trumps the Holy scriptures.
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Bob, be clear, as Paul was, that there is The Law of Christ. There are through out the NT behavior standards that make up that unique, heart of the New Covenant, the Law of Christ. One must study to see for themselves what the new standards of behavior the New Covenant prescribes. One can not read the New Testament without understanding there are still behaviorial stardards prescribed for the Christian. Hubb, that is why you need to change the name of your forum, and why Norris needs to give up on a Reformed Sabbath misdirecting the truth, when Christ is our true soul rest.
Happy New Year all who contribute to our discussion of the most important discussion any of us can spend time on. Keep studying the Gospel that is:
Philippians 2:9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
All other things are secondary to faith that Jesus is our saving Messiah and the Holy Spirit will direct us into all TRUTH, AMEN and AMEN.
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Bob_2
What "forum" are you talking about?
Hubert F. Sturges
www.theeverlastingcovenant.com
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