Am I a Prophet?

bob_2 · 01-09-09 4:45 pm

Tests of the Prophet <a href="http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pay/PAYc06.html#s" target=_top>http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pay/PAYc06.html#s</a> th0 I have gathered these tests from the White Estate web site. See above. Some of the tests are self-evident. Some I have added comments. Test 1. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20. Test 2. “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” Matthew 7:20. Test 3. “When the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him.” Jeremiah 28:9. Comment: This has been questioned regarding Ellen White. Anyone who has read her writings will see that she was given supernatural knowledge of events, people, and places in a number of instances. She was given a vision regarding a committee meeting in Battle Creek months before it happened, yet was prevented by the Spirit to relate the vision until she was in a general meeting just the morning after it happened. On many occasions she was given specific information regarding individuals. Information that she could not have gotten herself, and that was true in every detail. She was given visions of places where God wanted an institution, that she could not recognize at first. When later she was taken to the place, she recognized it immediately. (See history of Loma Linda.) In Great Controversy, a book written in 1884(?) she predicted that the Catholic church would again grow in power. At the time the Catholic Church was weak and in disarray. The Concordat with Mussolini in 1929 restored the Vatican as a separate state. However, in my memory, even in the 1930's the Catholic Church was small and weak. Since then the Catholic Church has greatly grown in power, to the point of being instrumental in bringing down the Communist empire of Soviet Russia. Test 4. “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.” 1 John 4:2. Additional Evidences: Physical manifestations. In chapter 4 mention was made of certain physical manifestations which at times accompanied the revelations of a true prophet. Taken with the other evidences, these manifestations form convincing added testimony. Timeliness is another striking feature of these revelations. Ordinarily we think of messages being given years, or even centuries before their full significance is realized; but many have been given at exactly the time they were needed. The certainty and the fearlessness with which the prophets gave their testimonies add weight to their claims to have God's messages. There was no hesitation, no hedging, no note of apology when Nathan stood before David and declared, “Thou art the man.” 2 Samuel 12:7. High spiritual plane. In the messages of true prophets there is nothing cheap or common or childish. While their writings deal with ordinary, everyday affairs of life, they do so in a dignified and fitting manner. Though great truths are expressed simply enough for children to understand, they are not childish, but profound enough to engage the keenest scholars in ever-expanding research. The spiritual principles laid down are the most lofty known to the human mind. Both the theme of the Bible and its mode of expression are worthy of, and command the respect of, the most learned as well as the most humble. Practical nature. Messages brought by the prophets are of a practical and useful nature. There are no weird fantasies or pointless ramblings in their communications. Though some messages are given in symbolic language, their intent may be discovered by following clearly discernible rules of interpretation. Summary: There is no reason to be deceived, for the Bible presents clear tests to be applied to the professed prophet. 1. “To the law and to the testimony.” Isaiah 8:20. 2. “By their fruits.” Matthew 7:20. 3. “When the word … shall come to pass.” Jeremiah 28:9. 4. “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” 1 John 4:2. Added evidences that help to confirm confidence in true prophets are: (1) physical manifestations, (2) timeliness, (3) certainty, (4) high spiritual plane, (5) practical nature. All the tests must be applied to the prophet, over a long period of time if necessary. The evidence is cumulative and must be carefully noted before a final decision is made. -------------------------- Hubert F. Sturges

george · 01-09-09 6:48 pm

Hubb, 1) I know what the law is. What is the TESTIMONY? 2) The fruits are varied in this case - depends on who you ask. 3) This one is too ambiguous. Anybody can guess 50% correctly. It seems that prophecy missed a great big political problem when EW was silent about the current Muslim upheaval as Christians are being outlawed, tortured and killed in some Muslim countries. The timeliness, the certainty & fearlessness, high spiritual plane are too subjective to comment on. Practical nature is also questionable when we consider some of the council given which is specific to the time in which she lived but still held to by the ultra conservative. In summary: this list is extremely subjective. I guess the beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

maggie · 01-09-09 7:34 pm

How come Hubb's name is signed to Bob2's post? <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

lijhakim · 01-09-09 8:28 pm

Hi, Maggie, We are coming to Boulder the weekend of April 3, the Lord willing. We can meet at the Ras Kassa Ethiopian Restaurant for lunch or dinner. Safer to come for dinner. It costs a bit more, but the injerra is usually fresh for dinner, sometimes it is a day old and stiff for lunch. Either Friday or Sunday is OK. We will be going to the Colorado Springs church on Sabbath. Anyone else in the area is welcome to come and enjoy a "different" eating experience. I learned to like Ethiopian food in Ethiopia. I go to an Ethiopian restaurant once a month or more if one is within driving distance. I find that when I eat Chinese or Mexican food, it repeats on me. Subway and Ethiopian food goes down well and I feel great afterward! BTW I checked on the internet. There are five Ethiopian Restaurants in Denver. Two get excellent ratings, but the best is the Ras Kassa restaurant in Boulder. Ras is Amharic for Duke or thereabouts. Ras Kassa is famous in Ethiopia for his leading the resistance to the Italian occupation. By the time the British and Haile Selassie returned in 1943(?) the Italians were pretty well bottled up in the cities. Might be best to skip the "Tej!" ------------------------------ Hubert F. Sturges .

lijhakim · 01-09-09 8:31 pm

Sirje, If you remember our discussion on Revelation 19:10, the testimony of Jesus is the Gospel message. This is the important and practical aspect of the work of the prophet. If you have read much of EGW you will find that her message is very gospel oriented.

lijhakim · 01-09-09 8:36 pm

Why did not EGW speak more about the Muslim upheaval? Well, here is the gospel according to Hubb! I believe that you will yet see that the important end time player is not Islam, but the RCC. In the book of Daniel, the gospel history of the world is repeated five times. And EVERY TIME the end time player is Roman Catholicism. NOT communism, not islam, not the New Age, etc. Just keep your eyes open!

lijhakim · 01-09-09 8:44 pm

The practical nature of the messages of God to us in important. With Israel on the Exodus, they were given food and water, their clothes did not wear out, they could always see either the pillar of cloud or the pillar of fire. All these were supernatural manifestations, but always of a practical nature. When Jesus was on earth, he healed the sick, raised the dead, and cast out devils. All very practical. During His trial before Herod, He was promised freedom if He would perform a miracle. But God does not play games. He will not perform a miracle for selfish reasons or just to satisfy curiosity. We can expect the same today. At times God will still heal the sick, even raise the dead and cast out devils. We can expect these miracles to increase just before Jesus comes again. But when we hear of a stone statue "weeping tears" or of the sun going around in circles in the sky, we have reason to question the source of those "miracles."

george · 01-09-09 10:31 pm

Hubb, So you think that the Hebrew word for "testimony" can be lifted out of Isaiah and made to mean the same as the Greek word for testimony in Revelation, regardless of context? I'm not surprised.

bob_2 · 01-10-09 12:01 am

Maggie, I started a thread Hubb was wishing for with his post from the other thread.

bob · 01-10-09 7:33 pm

Hubert, how about holding a 10 pound Bible arms length straight out for a half hour? Or maybe having no breath for the length of a vision without any brain damage? Can anyone name one of Sister White's prophesies that have come to pass? I can name one. In her statement to a group of Adventists she said the following: EGW: "I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27,1856 Some were food for worms. A true prophetic vision. Problem in her next breath she said some of them would be translated, thus wiping out her atta boy.

elaine · 01-10-09 11:04 pm

WOW! Daniel was surely a prophet if he predicted that the RCC would be the most important adversary against God's people hundreds of years before there was a RCC! Isn't it possible that any adversary that is fighting God and his people would also fit the description? Is it not strange that only Adventists homed in on the RCC in Daniel, at a time in U.S. history when Catholicsm was introduced by the influx of immigrants from Italy, Ireland and were feared by the longer resident Americans? There was certainly antipathy to these immigrant groups, nearly 100% Catholic.

lijhakim · 01-10-09 11:12 pm

Bob, My father was in one of the first classes of the College of Medical Evangelists at Loma Linda. He graduated in 1920. In class one day, the professor pointed out a student and asked him a question on the assigned reading. The student had not studied, but he was not at a loss for words. He began to expound at great length on the subject, and on everything else that came to his mind -- but not once could he come up with the answer. The professor looked on gravely. When the student finished, he simply said, "There may be some truth in what you say!" This is what came to mind when I read your objections to Ellen White. --------------------------- Ellen White wrote more words than almost any other author. Her books have been in demand for over 100 years. She has been instrumental in establishing schools, hospitals, a medical school, and printing presses for the church. She has been a public speaker who has always been in great demand. These accomplishments cannot be attributed to delusions or epileptic seizures. --------------------------- Ellen White has claimed to see visions, communicate messages to the church from God, and to receive information for events in the future that have subsequently taken place just as expected. These and other supernatural events must come from God as she has said; OR they are from the devil himself. There is no middle ground. ------------------------- God can and will save any one who has faith in Christ. To believe or to not believe Ellen White will not change that. To actively attack her or to detract from her ministry or to show hatred toward her in any other way is something else. For those who choose not to believe in her ministry, time will tell whether she is right and whether she has truly been the messenger of God. If she is right, they will have missed a means of grace that God has especially given to His church for these last days. For those who actively attack her and her ministry, time will tell whether they have done the work of God, or are the agents of Satan himself. There is no middle ground. ----------------------------- Hubert F. Sturges .

cadge · 01-11-09 8:46 am

"For those who actively attack her and her ministry, time will tell whether they have done the work of God, or are the agents of Satan himself. There is no middle ground". So I guess that anybody that reveals errors, indiscretions and clear contradictions that controvert the scripture in Ellen White's writings are not entering into intelligent discussion to arrive at truth, but are rather classified as those who "attack". It might make you feel better to take umbrance towards those who make comments here by painting them in words negative extreme("agents of Satan"), but it will not do for those who want to maintain a level of friendly discussion. Hubb, it"Might be best to skip the "Tej!"<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

george · 01-11-09 9:49 am

Hubb, I'm sure there are groups that feel the same way about Mary Baker Eddy and Brigham Young, but does that resonate with you? Second, third, etc. generation SDAs just don't understand that coming from the "outside" to this faith, takes a lot of questioning as to who EW really was, as you might understand if you were to join one of the other groups mentioned. You might believe that EW is different - sent by God - and that rejecting her is on the same level as rejecting God, but that just isn't the way it works. In my youth I just ignored her but as issues grew more intense, I had to choose whether to trust that my prayers were being personally answered or if I should ignore those answers and insist that EW knew better. If I had chosen to trust EW over my own convictions I would have rejected a personal connection with God and could no longer ask for God's guidance in my studies - just defer to EGW.

lijhakim · 01-11-09 12:43 pm

If a person chooses to not use or even to not believe Ellen White, I have no objection. However, when a person attacks her or her ministry, I will plainly state what I think. (Do I have the right of free speech?) An attack is far different than just not believing or not using. An attack against Ellen White resonates with all believers in her ministry. And, David, it is not conducive to "friendly discussion." Such attacks take the form of statements that she was epileptic, deluded, manipulated, etc. Statements regarding alleged mistakes or even wrong doing have been made, and countered -- even refuted. Yet these statements are used over and over again. It that conducive to "friendly discussion?" Did EGW make mistakes? Possibly. I will not judge. What I see is the overwhelming mass of material that bears the evidence of inspiration. To me, those "mistakes" are not important, and simply indicate that she was after all, human. And finally, I personally am accused frequently of being influenced by EGW in what I write on this forum -- with the clear implication that because EGW wrote it, it was wrong. Is that conducive to "friendly discussion?" About Mary Baker Eddy, Aimee Semple MacPherson, Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, even the Pope. I have my private opinions, but I will not attack them for any reason. Let's face it, even though we might not agree with these leaders, they had a lot of good things to say. If you feel differently, Sirje, how come I don't see you attacking them? -------------------------- Hubert F. Sturges .

george · 01-11-09 12:59 pm

Hubb, If you feel differently, Sirje, how come I don't see you attacking them? ...because they have nothing to do with me. EW, on the other hand has influenced everything the SDA church teaches. I accepted what the SDA teaches and those teachings went to my core being as I grew into my faith. However, as I studied further, I found the Bible did not agree with church teachings (Ellen White) and I had to choose whom to believe - the Bible or the church (EW). Because of the way the church has presented itself and how it has dealt with Des Ford, in particular, has caused me to distrust what it teaches (EW). If I had seen a modicum of fairness and Christian behavior by the church in some of these situations, I might still respect what it teaches; but the church has lost credibility and I mourn the trusting relationship I once had. If I believe that some of the teachings of the SDA church are not biblical should I not speak up? If that is an attack on EW, so be it. In fact, Hubb, I have been creful to never criticsixe ADventist but only SDA theology. what one belileves ils their own business and comes from a background I wouldn't know. (Message edited by sirje on January 12, 2009)

maggie · 01-11-09 4:23 pm

Hubb, April third is now written in the Palm of my, er, Centro. Thank you for inviting me! <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> And, I completely concur. Nothing is more disgusting than an old, stiff injerra. What's an injerra??? (Message edited by maggie on January 12, 2009)

lijhakim · 01-11-09 11:15 pm

Maggie, Injerra is the "bread" of the Ethiopians. It is a large sour dough pancake. You tear of a small piece, maybe 1 x 3 inches, use it to pick up some spicy "wat" and eat it. No fork or spoon. No chopsticks. If you want to be real authentic, you must keep the left hand off the table. You will have to pardon me, I need that left hand to keep the wat from dripping all over me! I usually get the vegetarian combo. That is 5-7 different types of wat arranged around a platter covered with an injerra. You will also get a plate of rolled up injerra to eat with. They have meat dishes also. Not to worry, Ethiopians do not eat pork for religious reasons. In this country, they always serve "high class injerra" which is white, thinner, more soft, and free of grit. The injerra that we were used to in Ethiopia was thick, brown, and a little gritty. They make the batter from a grain called "tef." A starter is added, and after a few days, it starts to roll all by itself. The skillet is about two feet in diameter. The cook will take a pitcher of batter and in one swift circular movement cover the skillet. This is then in turn covered with a large special cover for the cooking. It is not turned over. At the right time, the cover is taken off and the injerra is piled up on a platter and delivered to all those hungry Ethiopians waiting outside! When Ato Mengistu Hailemariam ousted Haile Selassie and brought in the Communist government (the Derg), the Royal Family knew what was coming and they fled the country en mass. Problem was that they could not take any money with them. Many of the Royal family have taken up employment in USA -- including operating Ethiopian restaurants. We will ask when we get there. Hubb

maggie · 01-12-09 11:15 am

Very interesting, Hubb - looking forward to meeting you!

bob · 01-12-09 4:45 pm

Hubert, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate some of what you wrote, but it hasn't given any better understanding of Mrs. White than before you wrote it. I am trying to get you to think. I ask pointed questions about some of the things she wrote which made me a disbeliever and I believe it is my duty to inform you and all who will read what I have learned. I didn't leave the church because of feelings, it was because I found erroneous teaching. You certainly haven't done anything to help me see any differently. Now you are telling me that I am an agent of Satan for attacking Mrs. White's writings and yet you won't come up to the plate and either admit she was wrong or give an answer that will really help my disbelief. Mostly, you just refuse to answer questions like in my above post. Your refusals just fortify the conclusions I have derived at in my studies. Your statement about Mrs. White and her influence in building the medical work did make me do a little thinking. Many people in this world have had "visions" of great things. Henry Ford visioned mass production of automobiles and gave his all to see the vision come true. Was he a prophet? Ellen White may have inspired Kellogg to build the san, but she surely wasn't the brains that built it. Mere words don't get the job done. Compare Kellogg's san to SDA hospitals of today. Are there any parallels you could draw? Are there any principals from Ellen White that are used in those hospitals? Are SDA hospitals different from Baptist or Catholic hospitals? How in the world can Adventists brag that Ellen was a pioneer in health when knowing people now know that she got her information from her contemporaries. She wasn't the first to dream up those remedies for illnesses and healthful living. Sorry to burst your bubble, but we have the facts on where they came from. We now have proof that many of the things she said we shouldn't eat or drink are actually good for us. Maybe the final word has not been written on the subject, but we do have some very good data on some of the things she said would cause ill health. How do you reconcile all this Hubert. You can face it head on or retreat like you have done and just call anyone, who says your prophet is false, an agent of satan(I won't capitalize satan because he doesn't desire the recognition). Bob

bob · 01-12-09 5:06 pm

Hubert wrote: About Mary Baker Eddy, Aimee Semple MacPherson, Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, even the Pope. I have my private opinions, but I will not attack them for any reason. Let's face it, even though we might not agree with these leaders, they had a lot of good things to say. I don't hardy know how to take your statement Hubert. Would you agree that the above "prophets" are false? If so, why wouldn't you help those who are in their "ditch" by exposing the reason they are there? Jesus exposed the pharisees and Paul exposed those who wanted to put Gentiles under the Law. I think this is a milk toast approach and you used it to make us feel like we are doing something terrible. You also exalted yourself as better than those who would do such a dastardly thing.

lijhakim · 01-12-09 6:54 pm

Bob, I don't intend to run away. It is just when I find that we are going over the same ground again, I find that I have more important things to do. I gave my considered opinion. I don't ask that you or anyone else take it for more than that. I do stand by my last post. If Ellen White is wrong and is misleading people, then you are a saint for helping people to see that. If she is really a messenger of the Lord, then YOU need to awaken to that fact. That is all I meant. I have found that on this forum, I have not changed anyone's opinion. Nor has anyone changed mine. I just post for fun. When it is no longer fun, I will do other things. On several occasions persons have indicated that they were really interested in what I had to say. So I would spend extra time to write a serious post, only to have them turn back to their usual way of thinking. Which is OK, except it makes me feel that I wasted my time. On the other hand, there may be a hundred or more people who look at this forum every day. And someone needs to present the Adventist viewpoint. -------------------------- Hubert F. Sturges .

cadge · 01-12-09 7:24 pm

Well, fortunately Lucinda wasn't one of those that sold their farms and posessions only to find out that Jesus didn't show in 1844 and were now penniless even though EGW claimed that Miller's prophetic time line was just as God wanted. Statement of Mrs. Lucinda Burdick Visions of Ellen G. Harmon I am of Free Will Baptist parentage and was converted to the religion of Jesus Christ when but a mere child. The influence of the Adventist movement of 1843 and 1844 reached me, but I did not understand their arguments nor was I in any way identified with them until the year 1845. I first heard of Miss Ellen G. Harmon (afterwards Mrs. Ellen G. White) in the early winter (Jan. or Feb.) of 1845, when my uncle Josiah Little came to my father's house and reported that he had seen one Ellen Harmon in the act of having visions which she claimed were given her of God. He said that she declares that God revealed to her that the door of mercy was closed for ever, and that there was henceforth no salvation for sinners. This caused me great uneasiness and anguish of mind for I had not been baptized and my youthful heart was much disturbed as to my salvation if the door of mercy was really closed. During the year 1845 I met Miss Ellen G. Harmon several times at my uncle's house in South Windham, Me. The first of these meetings was in the month of May, when I heard her declare that God had revealed to her that Jesus Christ would return to this earth in June, the next month. During the haying season I again met her in company with James White at the same place, and heard my uncle ask her about the failure of the Lord to appear in June according to her visions. She replied that she had been told in the language of Canaan which she did not understand; but that she had since come to understand that Christ would return in September, at the second growth of grass instead of the first. During the autumn of 1845 I was again visiting at my uncle's, Josiah Little, South Windham, Me. One Saturday night in October a party of six came to my uncle's house of entertainment over Sunday, among them James White and Ellen G. Harmon. That night I roomed in company with Miss Mary E. Bodge and Miss Harmon. Ellen talked much about her visions and I expressed an earnest desire to see her have one. The next morning (Sunday) in the presence of myself and others, Miss Bodge reproved James White for travelling about with Ellen Harmon and charged him with bringing reproach and scandal upon the cause of Christ by persisting in such a course. He defended his course by claiming it his duty to carry her about that she might declare her visions. He angrily resented Miss Bodge's reproof, and disclaimed any intentions of marrying "that little deformed thing" which were his exact words as he pointed to her sitting in a chair. In the afternoon of this same Sunday, White preached at the home of Andrew Bodge about a half mile from my uncle's residence, and the whole burden of his sermon was that the door of mercy had been closed the tenth day of the seventh month in the year of 1844; that there was henceforth no salvation for sinners and that God was revealing himself to his people through visions. Some time after the close of this afternoon service, Mary E. Bodge, Ellen G. Harmon and I went to a nearby grove for a season of prayers. While I was engaged in prayer, suddenly, Ellen Harmon became rigidly prostrate upon the ground. Miss Bodge immediately sent for James White who she said was the only one that could talk with her while in one of these spells. He and many others hurried to the spot and he immediately began to ask her a great variety of questions. Her eyes remained open and assumed a glassy stare. Sometimes as she answered his questions she would rise stiffly to a half sitting posture only to fall back rigidly prostrate upon the ground. Her position upon the ground seemed so uncomfortable that I placed her head in my lap and supported her thus throughout the event. Many of the questions asked her by White were relative to the spiritual standing of people who lived in the surrounding country. Some she declared were right with God while others had spots upon their garments. It was noticeable that the spotted ones were those who rejected her visions or hesitated to accept them fully. She even declared the destiny of the dead, seeing some, who were named to her by White, crowned with great glory and others rejected by God. During this trance condition I heard Ellen G. Harmon declare that Jesus Christ had rise from the mercy seat and entered the Holy of Holies in Heaven, and that the door of mercy was shut forever and that the world was helplessly doomed. She also declared that the devil had take possession of the mercy seat and was deceiving the people who were praying for the Holy Spirit, by casting upon them certain exhilarating influences which they mistook for the Spirit's power. These utterances she repeated several times. This trance condition lasted more than an hour and someone suggesting that the gathering dew would cause them to take cold, White said, "I guess it will be the will of the Lord to bring her out," and immediately she arose and assumed her normal behavior. Soon after this both confidence and interest in this fanatical couple vanished as the visions were not only childish and devoid of sense, but absolutely contradictory. Considerable scandal was created by the intimacy of this man and woman, but the "talk" gradually subsided after their marriage in 1846 about a year after the incident just related. Their influence and field of labor in Maine being lost they soon went out West where they succeeded in creating considerable interest and a large following through their sabbatarian teaching. [signed] Lucinda Burdick State of Connecticut, Fairfield County, SS., Bridgeport, Sept. 26, 1908, A.D. <a href="http://www.ex-sda.com/lucinda.htm" target=_top>http://www.ex-sda.com/lucinda.htm</a>

don · 01-14-09 10:38 am

How in the world can Adventists brag that Ellen was a pioneer in health when knowing people now know that she got her information from her contemporaries. In matters of health, Ellen White was certainly part of a larger societal phenomenon. The evidence is clear that she guided the church uniquely in matters of health. Very little that she promoted was unique to her, but the health message as a "package" was unique. Bragging is never proper for the Christian, whatever the stripe. The Bible tells us to let other people give the praise. As I examine the records available, I am impressed with EGW's persistence, her overall judgment and direction given at crucial moments in SDA history. Her influence inspired an army of Gospel workers to broaden their range of work. The people in responsibility did not always treat their workers with dignity and respect. She challenged them on their lack of love. This too is the role of a "prophet". It is misguided to view Ellen White as infallible or inerrant. The evidence of her own progress as a Christian is clear. Those in responsibility have not always kept humble. IMO, the numerous examples of Ellen White's fallible ministry have been allowed to come to light by God in order to humble the organization and possibly bring about an even kinder, gentler movement. Time will tell. I also consider it contrary to Christ for any Christian to cast aspersions on a fellow believer. Even the Bible calls those in error, "my people". "Come out of her, my people" The Adventist church has been amiss in this as much as her opponents. . (Message edited by Don on January 14, 2009)

bob · 01-14-09 11:29 am

I also consider it contrary to Christ for any Christian to cast aspersions on a fellow believer. Even the Bible calls those in error, "my people". "Come out of her, my people" The Adventist church has been amiss in this as much as her opponents. Don, are you saying that we should not involve ourselves in exposing Ellen White as a false Prophet when the evidence that she was is overwhelming? Are you saying that we shouldn't also reveal to the world the Rev. Moon and his Moonie cult, L Ron Hubbard and his Scientology cult, Joe Smith and his Mormon cult,and etc? These people are not fellow believers. They equate to the Gnostics in Paul's time. Paul surely didn't go about with tongue in cheek and I don't believe we should either. The reason we have all the cults is because of people thinking like you just did. Another is, it is not my problem, they are adults. Let them do what ever pleases them. That scenario is not loving your neighbor. Where in the Word do you find that we are forbidden to expose satan's inroads?

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