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anarchism <BR> <BR>a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups <BR> <BR> <BR>Obama: The times they are a-changing? <BR> <BR><a href="http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/5437" target=_top>http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/5437</a> <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>...In those senses, this is a historic result. However, as anarchists we are aware of the limitations of change via the state. That is why we are anarchists, after all. Obama represents the more progressive (and more sane) wing of the American Business Party so any “change” that may be coming will not challenge the power of capital has over the state. Equally, the powerful economic, political and social interests which ensured 8 years of Bush will not disappear. As with Clinton, that pressure will be placed on Obama to implement “reforms” similar in content and aim (if not quite as extreme) as those that would be implemented by a Republican President. We should not forget that it was Clinton who “reformed” welfare, repealed key regulations on financial markets, presided over record increases in inequality, backed NAFTA and so on. And, of course, if economic pressures do not work there is the state bureaucracy with its network of permanent institutions and officials who can hinder and delay any serious reforms which the capitalist class opposes.... <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
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Anarchist? or Antichrist? <BR> <BR><a href="http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/08/06/jesus-said-obama-is-the-anti-christ/" target=_top>http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/08/06/jesus-said -obama-is-the-anti-christ/</a> <BR> <BR>either way, we may neverknow until we see his real birth certificate....
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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How many birth certificates of former presidents have been seen. Why such a concern then, over Obama's. Does anyone seriously believe that a non-citizen could ever have become president. Surely, you jest.
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why did the DNC spend $ on lawyers to stop the inquiry? <BR> <BR>why not just dust off the original certificate, show us the name of the doctor who delivered him, and have his living relatives confirm it all... <BR> <BR>its like the apoligists for EGW or the Old Test... they want us to believe what they say, but they prefer that we not look things up personally in case it upsets the beliefs. <BR> <BR>almost all politicians are motivated to hide things in their past. <BR> <BR>A gal from my academy who was the apparent good time had by all (except me!!) later told me about her escapades in Washington setting up parties for congressmen with lobyist money... <BR> <BR>her friend and co-worker worked for Bobby Kennedy, but when he died, she transferred to Teddies staff, and was one of the party girls on the Island of Chappiquidick.... <BR> <BR>but whe was never interviewed by police or reporters..why? <BR>because the next day, she told my friend that she had been given a year long cruise around the world, and a new jaguar which was to be delivered to her garage ....when she returned.... <BR> <BR>payoffs to keep quiet. <BR> <BR>they all try to do it.
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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I can't resist commenting again on this. No reasonable person or organization which has reviewed the manufactured controvery over Obama's birth believes that his Hawaii birth certificate is false. Check out <a href="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html" target=_top>http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_th e_usa.html</a> and <a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/" target=_top>http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/20 08/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/</a> It takes less than a minute to find these. One wonders what planet the "birthers" are from. I would like one, and, if you are one John, this is for you, to explain how or why Obama's family would have gotten the Honolulu Advertiser newspaper to publish a mundane and typical birth announcement a few days after his birth. It was not to get citizenship. A child born to an American overseas is entitled to citizenship. My father-in-law got an American passport when he was in his 60's based on the fact that his father was born in Washington State. (My father-in-law was never a resident of the USA.) "Birthers" have to believe that a conspiracy was formed to make Obama president back in 1961 when he was a day or two old. What other reason could there be to fake an Hawaiian birth? I can't think of any. <BR> <BR>Is there no lie about Obama that is too ridiculous to be believed?
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Keep in mind what the country was like in 1961 when this "conspiracy" was formed. No one in their right mind could imagine that a child born to a black man and white woman could aspire to be president, let alone succeed. It is still amazing. I suspect that the anti-Obama hysteria we are experiencing today shows that we still have a long way to go. How else do we explain how otherwise intelligent people suspend their rational faculties and will believe virtually any ridiculous claim.
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There is approximately 25% of the electorate in the USA that is unhinged, delusional, nutty, loony, gullible, credulous. <BR> <BR>This is the target audience of Fix It News, AM talk radio, Amway, and Amazing Facts. <BR> <BR>Not just nature abhors a vacuum.
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I have seen copies of Obama's birth certificate online as well as the newspaper announcing his birth. For those who can't or don't read, nothing will be believed when they are convinced otherwise. <BR> <BR>It's the Glen Beck's and Faux News that propagate and agitate lies and anyone watching such shows are in the "uninged, delusional, nutty, loony gullible, credulous" group. Maybe they still believe in UFOs and <BR> <BR>As nutty as the senior citizen who yelled out "Keep the government hands off my Medicare!"
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sorry for your problem, Art... <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1780.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR>heres a few of the real resons to worry. <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1781.jpg" alt=""> <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1782.jpg" alt=""> <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1783.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR>and the three billion Obama bucks he's given to ACORN to start his brown shirt brigade. <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1784.jpg" alt="">
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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John, if this is causing you worry, you should be so lucky! Of all the insignificant things, this is the nuttiest!
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yes...it causes worry to think that a political hack from corrupt Chicago could be our great leader... with no experience other than a community organizer, could buy enuf votes with money and cigarettes and promises which he will never be able to fulfil. <BR> <BR>but don't believe me...look at his history: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.nypost.com/seven/10102008/news/politics/1_voter__72_registrations_132965.htm" target=_top>http://www.nypost.com/seven/10102008/news/politics /1_voter__72_registrations_132965.htm</a> <BR> <BR>CLEVELAND - A man at the center of a voter-registration scandal told The Post yesterday he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times, in apparent violation of Ohio laws. <BR>"Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up," said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. <BR>"The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?' " he said. <BR> <BR>Johnson used the same information on all of his registration cards, and officials say they usually catch and toss out duplicate registrations. But the practice sparks fear that some multiple registrants could provide different information and vote more than once by absentee ballot. <BR> <BR>ACORN is under investigation in Ohio and at least eight other states - including Missouri, where the FBI said it's planning to look into potential voter fraud - for over-the-top efforts to get as many names as possible on the voter rolls regardless of whether a person is registered or eligible. <BR> <BR>It's even under investigation in Bridgeport, Conn., for allegedly registering a 7-year-old girl to vote, according to the State Elections Enforcement Commission. <BR>Meanwhile, a federal judge yesterday ordered Ohio's Secretary of State to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The order was in response to a Republican lawsuit unrelated to the ACORN probe in Cuyahoga County, in which at least three people, including Johnson, have been subpoenaed. <BR> <BR>Bribing citizens with gifts, property or anything of value is a fourth-degree felony in Ohio, punishable by up to 18 months in prison. And it's a fifth-degree felony - punishable by 12 months in jail - for a person to pay "compensation on a fee-per-registration" system when signing up someone to vote. <BR>Johnson, who works at a cellphone kiosk in downtown Cleveland, said he was a sitting duck for the signature hunters, but was always happy to help them out in exchange for a smoke or a little scratch. He'd collected 10 to 20 cigarettes and anywhere from $10 to $15, he said. <BR> <BR>The Cleveland voting probe, first reported by The Post yesterday, also focused on Lateala Goins, who said she put her name on multiple voter registrations. She guessed ACORN canvassers then put fake addresses on them. "You can tell them you're registered as many times as you want - they do not care," she said. <BR>ACORN spokesman Kris Harsh said the group does not tolerate its workers paying people to sign the voter-registration cards. <BR> <BR><b>ACORN's political wing has endorsed Barack Obama for president,</b> but Ben LaBolt, a spokesman for the Obama campaign in Ohio, said ACORN has no role in its get-out-the-vote drive. <BR> <BR>During the primary season, however, <b>the Obama camp paid another group, Citizen Service Inc., $832,598 for various political services, according to Federal Elections Commission filings. That group and ACORN share the same board of directors. </b> <BR> <BR>In Wisconsin yesterday, John McCain blasted ACORN. <BR>"No one should be corrupting the most precious right we have, that is the right to vote," he said. <BR>It's a right Johnson will exercise. "Yeah, I've registered enough - I might as well vote." <BR>end quote <BR> <BR>I just cant wait for ACORN to develop into the civilian defense corps which Obama wants to be as powerful as our military... kinda like Hitlers SS?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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You were happier, maybe, with Dubya. Maybe none of the presidents have met your approval. Nevertheless, Obama is our president for the next, and unless a real GOP darkhorse surfaces, he will be for 8 years. Get over it! How has his presidency affected you in a serious way.
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he is running up horrible deficits which my kids will have to pay back to the Chineese. <BR> <BR>his paid minions shut down a perfectly good Chrysler dealership in a nearby town. just took the franchise away...and will probably give it to <BR>some of his political supporters if not ACORN directly.
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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Bernanke, last I looked, is charman of the Federal Reserve and has the last word on deficits. <BR> <BR>Did you offer objections when Dubya moved from the Clinton surplus to greatly increased deficit in a few short years. <BR> <BR>Why must we purchase cars through dealers, anyway. Why not order online and get the best competitive price. Did Amazon drive out the bookstores, or did Obama close the many retail stores, or could it be simply attributed to greatly reduced sales of nearly everything that occurs with a depression. Whose fault is that. We the people and We the government charged everything and eventually the chickens come home to roost. <BR> <BR>When any business has declining sales, why should the government bail them out. I disagree with the bailout of the "too big to fail" banks that are now paying exorbitant bonuses and raising rates, driving smaller banks out of business. But Paulson, appointed by Bush made those decisions under Dubya's watch. Both Paulson and Geithner were in collusion as former Wall Street guys.
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"O" now plans to control the internet.... <BR> <BR><a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html" target=_top>http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html</a> <BR> <BR>ostensibily for "security" purposes...but where are the same people who complained about Bush tapping terrorist phone calls to protect our country? why are they not complaining now? <BR> <BR>maybe because this huge new government control under CZARS politically appointed by the CZAR in Chief with little or no congressional oversight is ok for people who believe in big government... <BR> <BR>as long as Big Government takes money away from those who earn it and "redistributes" it to those who don't?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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The SENATE introduced the bill. There was nothing about Obama behind it. Unless everything that occurs in Washington one wishes to blame on him. The last I checked we are not a monarchy, and he is not a king.
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Elaine, I think it's a bit naive to state that there was nothing about Obama behind this bill. Think about it. And, by the way, what is the purpose of this bill? To give the <i>White House</i>, aka the President, emergency powers. So, even if there was nothing about Obama behind the bill, he surely is involved in the bill's application in a big way. <BR> <BR>In regards to Obama and Congress: good luck in trying to control the Internet if an emergency does occur.
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Where were the folks who are disturbed by seeing Obama behind this bill, when Bush used enormous "Executive Powers" and his administration backed the dastardly handling of "terrorists." Those were also "emergency" powers. <BR> <BR>Controlling the internet is akin to tapping, without warrant, private phones. This was done without an congressional oversight.
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<font color="0000ff">Where were the folks ....</font> while Bush tried to protect us from more terrorists... <BR> <BR>here's one guy who would probably love to have the opportunity to thank Bush, and tell "O" to go to well, ah, to visit with the dasterdly terrorists who did this... <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1787.jpg" alt="">
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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<font color="0000ff">How many birth certificates of former presidents have been seen.</font> <BR> <BR>since McCain was born overseas, in the US Panama Canal zone, he took time to present his case to the Congress, and get their joint approval of his eligibility. <BR> <BR>Even after questions arose about "O"'s eligibility, he and his supporters have continued to stonewall..... <BR> <BR>pics of his brother living in a dirt shack in Kenya, and his beloved Aunt living on welfare as an illegal immigrant in Boston do not help shake the notion that he is not the real deal. <BR> <BR>His request to Hawaii to prduce the original birth cert, along with an investigation by the FBI re the actual hospital and doctor records, could either put all this to rest, and clear his name, or allow him to be the honest, forthright, most open administration he claims we have ever had, and if necessary to say <BR> <BR>"I'm sorry...I didn't know... <BR> <BR>now lets get back to the other promises I cannot or will not keep." <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1791.jpg" alt="">
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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If you have not seen his birth certificate it's because you haven't availed yourself of the opportunity. I have seen it on the internet. Check it out before you make such erroneous claims. Also, I have seen the 1961 birth announcement in the Hawiian newspaper. It's also available. Unless, you think that his parents were "seers" and saw that he would one day run for president and made it all up! <BR> <BR>It's the lack of knowledge that allows anyone to make such preposterous statements. I haven't even tried, but seen these on the internet. Were they forged--well maybe your birth never really happened.
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when I recently went for a Passport, having let mine expire, I went to the town neaby where I was delivered.... for 15$ they went to the basement, came up with the ORIGINAL certificate, with doctors name and sigature in ink, showed it to me, AFTER I showed them other proof of ID, and then they made copies for me, and stamped them official.... <BR> <BR>but I got to see the original, vault certificate, not some made up paper with no doctors signature. <BR> <BR>Isn't that the problem people are claiming? <BR> <BR>I could care less if he is from Kenya, because it is my opinion based on his work so far that the corrupt and big government environment out of which he came is not what our country needs. <BR> <BR>he is a good looking shirt who can read off a teleprompter real well. but he has surrounded himself with CZARS who answer to him only, are not subject to popular recall, and his party is trying to use their slim majority to ram thru congress their own personal agendas. <BR> <BR>Pelosi is among the worst...directing porkulus money to her favorite rodent in the Bay area, and to Star Kist Tuna out in the Pacific in which her hubby is a major stock holder!!! <BR> <BR>they are all crooks.... <BR> <BR>thank God and good reporters that they don't always get away with their corruption. no matter which side of the aisle they sit. <BR> <BR>but the dems in charge are mostly of the opinion that they should take your and my money and give it to the needy...while they enrich themselves in the process. <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1794.jpg" alt="">
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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<b><font color="0000ff">Isn't that the problem people are claiming?</font></b> <BR> <BR>Well, some are, like you. Have you gone in person to Hawaii to see his birth certificate. You saw yours because you asked in person. I have seen copies (they do not send out originals on the internet, in case you weren't aware) of both his birth certificate and birth announcement in the paper. <BR> <BR>What is your problem--if you don't like his policies, it has nothing to do with his legitimacy to the office. It's a little late to contest that. <BR> <BR>Are you trying, not so subtly, to let us know you're a registered Republicrat.
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cynical and frightened independent <BR> <BR>cynical about the Dem's effort to raise our energy costs by refusing new drilling, and raising taxes on fossil fuels (especially coal, which for the forseeable future will be needed to power those plants which make electricity for those batteries in your fancy electric cars!!)before we have any technology to replace it...all of which is a big gov't tax on our economy, and which will put us farther behind the deficit 8 ball,. <BR> <BR>frightened that our enemies, both real and financial, will take advantage of his "nice guy' appearance....I mean..bowning down to the Saudis??? and then lying about it!!!! <BR> <BR>I'm fearful that failing to close our borders will just continue the drain on our economy...at least the Canadians who come here for medical reasons (escaping their socialist system) bring money, while the Mexican governments health system seems to consist of sending their needy to our border ER's.... <BR> <BR>Obama's cherished aunt, living inBoston in assisted housing, and on welfare, is indicative of a major drag on our economy.... <BR> <BR>Obama trying to get emergency control of the internet (possibly against US) smacks of big brotherism worse than "W"'s successful phone taps against outsiders <BR> <BR>and all the Dems running from their own town hall meetings? they are not in touch with realtiy or their constituents... and they are trying to force health care of lower standard on us than they have....
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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Continue to be scared if it will help your emotional and mental health. Continue worrying, that is also another drain on one's physical resources. Me--why worry. What is to be will be.
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