Evolution is as proven as 2 + 2 = 4 ?

bob_2 · 09-30-09 11:49 am

This thread is started so those that can prove evolution the way one can prove the equation will have the opportunity to do so: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Just How Well Proven Is Evolution? by John D. Morris, Ph.D. Recently I was a guest on CNN's Lou Dobbs program, discussing the difference between evolution, intelligent design, and creation. The other two guests were well- known ID spokesmen, Dr. Jon Wells, and famous evolutionist, Dr. Michael Ruse. In the middle of the discussion, Dr. Ruse claimed that evolution is a proven fact, just as "proven" as 2+2=4. When challenged, he insisted the two statements are equivalently true. Is this so? If not, what is the difference? Here's a simple experiment to verify one of the statements. Extend two fingers on your left hand, and then extend two on your right hand. Lay them all on the table in front of you, and count them. You should get four. If you are careful, every time you count them, you will get four. It's an observational fact. Now devise an experiment to verify evolution. Keep trying. There must be one. I suspect even Dr. Ruse would be unable to propose an experiment to verify evolution like we verified our mathematical equation. Even if both statements are facts, obviously they are not the same kind of facts. That's because evolution is not something we can observe. If it's happening today, it's going too slow to observe. If it happened in the past, we can't return to the past to see. It may be a fact of history, but how would we know? Certainly not in the same way we know 2+2=4. Evolution, at the most, is an idea about history, not observational science. There may be inferences we can make about the past based on modern observations, and these may or may not be true, but don't bother claiming that ideas about history are the same as repeatable observations in the present. And don't insult us by thinking that we will believe that they are. It makes you wonder if evolutionists really believe what they say or if they are purposively trying to mislead. I suspect there are some of both. Many evolutionists I have met have something in their own past that has turned them away from "religion." Maybe it was legalistic parents or abuse by a respected figure. Maybe it was the insistence that we should "avoid science because it contradicts the Bible," leaving them without answers to historical claims made in the name of science. A bitter hatred of God and Biblical truth developed, leading them to a life dedicated to freeing others from the shackles of Scripture, justifying the wrong use of evolutionary claims. However, most evolutionists are evolutionists because they are victims of the wrong teaching of others. Naturalism (i.e., naturalistic evolution) is often desirable, for it seemingly frees us from the authority of a Creator God. Without a God to whom we are accountable, we are free to live as we choose. College students, often surrounded by hedonism are particularly ripe for wrong thinking, and many never recover. Either way, it can lead to ludicrous statements, such as "evolution is as true as 2+2=4." Thankfully, most people are not hopelessly deceived. Polls in America show that the majority believes in creation, and many more want it taught. Less than 10% are confirmed evolutionists, yet they seemingly control education. They may teach that evolution is well proven, but we don't have to believe them. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://www.icr.org/article/2605/" target=_top>http://www.icr.org/article/2605/</a> Don't bother saying this is an apologist site, it seems that those of you with an atheist bent, quote for evolutionary biased sites, so I won't be offended if you find a proof like the 2+2 = 4 obvious one in the quote above from a biased source of evolutionists.

john8verse32 · 09-30-09 12:25 pm

find a proof like the 2+2 = 4 and if we did, would you even read it anyway? since you've expressed an unchangeable desire to keep the view you already have. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/16/1940.jpg" alt=""> btw: there are cases where 2 + 2 does NOT equal 4 in base 3, 2 + 2 = 11 in binary, 2 + 2 = 100 but if you don't get that, why not also give up on evolution since you don't want to study it, and since its so complicated anyway, why not study history...''specifically earth history... and learn that there is no good evidence outside the bronze age hebrews plagairism of the Babylonian flood epic for a world wide flood... but learn that there IS extensive, interconnected evidence for the earth and the universe to exceed Catholic Bishop Ussher's now disproven limits. for example....are you aware that God or nature or both have been bowling errant space rocks at the earth for millions of years? <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/ancientproof/impactcraters.html" target=_top>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/ancientproof/impactcraters.html</a> (Message edited by john8verse32 on September 30, 2009)

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#1 09-30-09 11:49 am