In the media: evolution /creation

john8verse32 · 05-12-09 10:49 am

a wonderful series is running on the History Channel about "How the earth was made"... explaining the geology of the earth... tonights repeat episode is Iceland plus a new hour explaining how the ALPS were made... <a href="http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/earth/296768" target=_top>http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/earth/296768</a>

john8verse32 · 05-12-09 7:15 pm

How The Earth Was Made : The Alps Airs on Tuesday May 12 09:00 PM The jagged backbone of Europe, spanning seven countries and providing essential water to millions, the Alps is Europe's most important geographic landmark. But how did marine fossils get here, seven thousand feet above sea level? Investigators as far back as Leonardo da Vinci have attempted to fathom out how the Alps evolved, a story that takes us to the bottom of the sea, up the slopes of the infamous Eiger and Matterhorn and deep into the heart of a glacier. But these iconic peaks won't be here for long. The mountains are tumbling down, glaciers are melting and the Alps are being washed away. How The Earth Was Made : Iceland Airs on Wednesday May 13 12:00 AM It is the largest and most fearsome volcanic island on the planet. We'll scour the island for clues, to address the mystery of what powerful forces are ripping Iceland apart and lighting its fiery volcanoes. Here, lava rips huge tears in the ground and new islands are born from the waves. Yet despite the active volcanoes, Iceland historically has been covered in and carved by ice. Fire and ice collide, locked in a titanic battle, as glaciers explode and cataclysmic floods decimate the landscape. But Iceland's volcanoes have had ramifications far beyond the shores of Iceland, causing climatic chaos and devastation across the planet; a fate which may one day happen again. <a href="http://www.history.com/content/how-the-earth-was-made/upcoming-episodes" target=_top>http://www.history.com/content/how-the-earth-was-m ade/upcoming-episodes</a>

john8verse32 · 06-12-09 1:54 pm

the Creation Wars...going on now over at Spectrum <a href="http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2009/05/29/creation_wars" target=_top>http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/20 09/05/29/creation_wars</a> interesting discussions between biblical literalists and figurativists and naturalists!!

george · 06-12-09 9:49 pm

Has anyone seen the video, EXPELLED by Ben Stein? It looks like the science community, bent on evolution, is just as paranoid about the opposition as the six-day creation crowd is of the science crowd. It must be human nature to circle the wagons whenever someone questions the sacred cows. Interesting video; but then I like Ben Stein.

renie · 06-13-09 4:43 pm

Sirje....don't you think religion should be exciting, adventursome and forever searching? It isn't though, is it? It's dull and predictable. I love your illustration of 'circling the cows'. Boy, isn't that the truth? I like Ben Stein too. WHERE IS EVERYBODY? renie

renie · 06-13-09 7:36 pm

Opps! I meant circling the wagons. renie

george · 06-13-09 8:55 pm

Hi Irene, They're over at Spectrum fighting the war between evolution and creation, I think. And what a war it's turning out to be. I'm afraid another purge is in the making. Maybe they'll just purge themselves out of existence. Too bad. Yes, it should be exiting. It certainly isn't dull at my house. I think I have at least five books on the go and don't know which one to tackle and when. I'm getting to the point, though, of just tossing them all and going on a walkabout like the Aussies do. Great idea. I have a friend who lives in the northern part of the country (US) who just told me she's thinking of packing up a few things and going out into the wild to spend the summer sorting things out. She's a wife and a grandmother and has a leantoo out in the woods of northern Michigan. Yes, she's a tree hugger and I love her - sends some amazing pictures she's taken out there in the wild. I wish I had he nerve to do something like that. Oh well.

john8verse32 · 06-13-09 10:53 pm

there are two pages here to read: <a href="http://spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2009/05/29/creation_wars" target=_top>http://spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2009/0 5/29/creation_wars</a> Elaine, Serje and I have all chimed in, probably without convincing anybody who already disagreed!!! and on this page, there are several other discussions to click on the right.... check out especially the virulence of the "truth" squad!! parts one and two. They sound like they want to dismember anybody who disagrees with their literal understanding of everything. <a href="http://spectrummagazine.org/af" target=_top>http://spectrummagazine.org/af</a>

renie · 06-14-09 12:42 am

John,Thanks for the Spectrum source. I'm familiar with Spectrum. Read it a lot. Have wanted to print some of the responses off but the print comes out so small I can't read it. I found Sirje's comments. Good job, Sirje!! Couldn't find yours, John. Are you writing under another name or did I just miss your comments?

elaine · 06-14-09 3:55 pm

Renie, John writes under his name here: John Alfke. We are swinging at windmills, I'm afraid. It's not really whether one believes in evolution, creation, or somewhere in between. It's the fanatical literalists who are stirring up the flames, gathering the wood and hoping for a big bonfire and the smell of burning flesh (figuratively). Similar to the Salem Witch Trials. The loudest voice complaining against La Sierra's science dept. is a high school dropout. Go figure! He wouldn't know an ameoba if he saw one!

don · 06-14-09 7:14 pm

The loudest voice complaining against La Sierra's science dept. is a high school dropout. Go figure! He wouldn't know an ameoba if he saw one! Certainly, some of those with higher education degrees have the capability of working through such a crisis as this. We offer provincial diplomas here at our school. We have had to find our peace with the government Curriculum, one infused with evolutionary thinking. Our science teachers have no problem teaching about evolution; all of them are what I would call "thinking" creationists. If we can solve our local dilemma with a public curriculum, certainly La Sierra can resolve what it is facing. I think the problem deepens if the professors forget their religious moorings and replace them with those of scientism. Adventist scientists can admit that the Bible is not a scientific treatise. There are many things about origins which are beyond our ability to know. Also, the natural processes the Creationist calls adaption, the naturalistic scientist considers part of evolution. They just use different words to speak of the same thing. It is only when time is added and "monkey to man" thinking that the two part company. Another area is the movement from non-life to life. Some naturalistic scientists reject Darwinian evolution for a non-created universe stretching back into the unknown of earlier eras. . .

elaine · 06-14-09 10:12 pm

Don, there is surely more heat than light and those stirring up trouble are determined to invalidate the science department by writing the G.C. president and demanding all the teachers they have identified be fired. I am not concerned that their wishes will be realized, but there is an undercurrent within the church pushing for a return to fundamentalism which can become larger, considering that the largest group in the church fit that category.

don · 06-15-09 1:10 am

writing the G.C. president and demanding all the teachers they have identified be fired. The G.C. president seems to have established a generous track record. a return to fundamentalism which can become larger, considering that the largest group in the church fit that category. How does one determine "the largest group?" Most Adventists view themselves as compassionate conservatives, IMO. .

george · 06-15-09 9:19 am

How does one determine "the largest group?" The group with the most money and, therefore, influence.

elaine · 06-15-09 3:33 pm

Sirje, the majority of fundamentalists are in the fast-growing third world countries where women's ordination or any similar changes are seen as destroying Adventism. Their numbers far outweigh the NAD in numbers, although not in money. Some of the largest financial contributors have been fundamentalists who knew that money, not knowledge, was the ultimate power. I'm reading a huge compendium collated by a long-time fomer SDA on the Davenport and other scandals which enveloped the church in past decades, and the influence of the "high and mighty" $$$signs is readily apparent. Don, can you describe your definition of "Compassionate conservatives"? Might they not also be fundamentalists? Conservatives usually means those who would protect the status quo, which is the main function of the hierarchy of any religious institution. Change is always threatening.

george · 06-15-09 3:39 pm

Elaine, Yes, that is why I defined "the largest group", not as one in number, but in wealth, and therefore, influence. However, the conservative majority is emerging from those third-world churches. It remains to be seen what happens when the conservative money dries up in NA, as it will in time.

elaine · 06-15-09 7:06 pm

Sirje, tithe-paying is already down and with the economy, it will not go up until things change. Money rules it all, and there is far too much evidence that the church has squandered tithe money for years: Davenport, Shady Grove, Paradise Spa, AHS, lawsuits, and more--all paid with tithe monies.

don · 06-16-09 3:16 pm

Don, can you describe your definition of "Compassionate conservatives"? Most of the people in my Sabbath School class, or any Sabbath School class, perhaps. They hold to the tenets of Adventism but enjoy engaging the mind and instinctively care about each other. Might they not also be fundamentalists? I think that is possible but I find that many Adventists think more than what I presume a fundamentalist does. There are two kinds of Adventists, ones who treasure freedom to think and ones who know they are right and have let go free discovery. Conservatives usually means those who would protect the status quo, Here in Canada we have had what was called Progressive Conservative. Kind of like an oxymoron? which is the main function of the hierarchy of any religious institution. Change is always threatening. One historian has observed that when Ellen White died, the church lost its main supporter of innovation and change. .

george · 06-16-09 4:14 pm

My definition of a fundamentalist is one who knows what the chapter and verse says before he opens the Bible.

don · 06-16-09 9:10 pm

one who knows what the chapter and verse says before he opens the Bible. If you mean that his mind is already set before opening the Bible, I agree. If you mean that he knows his Bible so well that he can tell you what a particular verse says, then I submit that a thoughtful and experienced Bible student can do the same. When I was young, birdwatching occupied much of my spare time. I studied my birdbook relentlessly. Once, while lying on a beach observing distant sandpipers, a gull-like bird flew overhead. It had a long tail. Without consulting my birdbook, I knew what it was; a Long-tailed Jaeger. Sometimes my students marvel at how well I know my Bible. The process of gaining Bible knowledge is similar to my youthful experience with the birdbook. A lifetime of interest, discussions like those here at atomorrow, a perpetual seeking to fill in the knowledge gaps, all contribute to knowing what that verse says before looking it up again. Ahhh, but there is so much more to learn. .

elaine · 06-16-09 9:21 pm

I have known people who could quote many texts and where to find them. However, that did not also mean that they understood or even had the proper exegesis of the text. Being able to recite a memory verse, as many children do, does not also bring with an understanding of what it means.

bob_2 · 06-16-09 11:57 pm

Maybe not, but it helps with key words for online Bible searches though doesn't it? Eh??? (Message edited by Bob_2 on June 16, 2009)

don · 06-17-09 8:24 am

However, that did not also mean that they understood or even had the proper exegesis of the text. I agree. However, I do believe that familiarity with the scope of the material is essential to proper exegesis of any particular text. Being able to recite a memory verse, as many children do, does not also bring with an understanding of what it means. I agree, but memorizing a verse can be an important early step. All people, including children as they grow to maturity, seek to understand. If I can recite a passage and also understand its personal meaning for my faith then the experience has great value. Consider these assertions:<blockquote>Psalm 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; his feet do not slip. Psalm 40:8 I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart." Proverbs 2:1-5<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:1 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, 3 and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Proverbs 7:1-3<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote: 1 My son, keep my words and store up my commands within you. 2 Keep my commands and you will live; guard my teachings as the apple of your eye. 3 Bind them on your fingers; write them on the tablet of your heart. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Luke 6:43-45<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote></blockquote> .

george · 06-17-09 9:05 am

Don, I did not mean that the "fundamentalist" simply knows where to find a verse. It's about being bored with Bible reading. There is no excitement - no discovery. The Bible verse he learned in primary means the same as he nods off as a senior. And, BTW, those texts are known in isolation. For the more advanced fundamentalist, he knows the verses in a certain sequence and may have his Bible even marked in the margins as to where to go next for his proofs. That is how we get the "day for a year" principle; the "spirit of prophesy" used as proper noun; 457 as the beginning of the 2300 days; and the list goes on. I have no idea why people try frantically to keep up with texts during the sermon. They already know exactly what the Bible says about any given question - no need to rehash any issues. The truth has been set.

don · 06-17-09 12:09 pm

There is no excitement - no discovery. Yes. This does happen. I have found that people really appreciate a fresh look at things. I recall reading of W.W. Prescott's inductive Bible study innovation at the turn of the 1800's to 1900's. The resulting enthusiasm for Bible study was impressive. (I need to refind those reports.) I have no idea why people try frantically to keep up with texts during the sermon. They already know exactly what the Bible says about any given question - no need to rehash any issues. The truth has been set. Perhaps that is true for some. I think there is a lot of narrow thinking sincerity in Adventism. Some, if not all, people appreciate being drawn out of their own quagmire and shown new thoughts from old passages. .

Adventists for Tomorrow

Announcement

#1 05-12-09 10:49 am

In the media: evolution /creation

#2 05-12-09 7:15 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#3 06-12-09 1:54 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#4 06-12-09 9:49 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#5 06-13-09 4:43 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#6 06-13-09 7:36 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#7 06-13-09 8:55 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#8 06-13-09 10:53 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#9 06-14-09 12:42 am

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#10 06-14-09 3:55 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#11 06-14-09 7:14 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#12 06-14-09 10:12 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#13 06-15-09 1:10 am

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#14 06-15-09 9:19 am

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#15 06-15-09 3:33 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#16 06-15-09 3:39 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#17 06-15-09 7:06 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#18 06-16-09 3:16 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#19 06-16-09 4:14 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#20 06-16-09 9:10 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#21 06-16-09 9:21 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#22 06-16-09 11:57 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#23 06-17-09 8:24 am

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#24 06-17-09 9:05 am

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

#25 06-17-09 12:09 pm

Re: In the media: evolution /creation

Board footer