To go or not go

heipauli · 01-22-09 4:00 pm

namely to extinction? <a href="http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finnish_seal_nears_extinction_496475.html" target=_top>http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finnish_seal_ne ars_extinction_496475.html</a>

cadge · 01-22-09 5:43 pm

I should think that the world comunities woud be outraged about Finland's Saima-ringed seal decimation as also the Hawaiian and mediterranian. Don't they have divers thar work the nets to let non-targeted species out? <a href="http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finnish_seal_nears_extinction_496475.html" target=_top>http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finnish_seal_ne ars_extinction_496475.html</a> -------------- And Pauli. do you know if they are remanding prisoners to your prisoners for torture from other countries? The Council of Europe anti-torture Committee has issued a report with recommendations on improving human rights conditions in the Finnish prison system. The Council of Europe's Committee for the prevention of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment (CPT) carried out a visit to Finland in April of last year, at the request of the Finnish authorities. On Tuesday, it published a report containing recommendations aimed at eliminating the practice of holding remand prisoners in police cells. In this context, the Finnish authorities have informed the Committee of plans to adopt measures to decrease the number of remand prisoners in police establishments and to shorten the periods spent by them in police custody. <a href="http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finland_cautioned_about_prison_conditions_492308.html" target=_top>http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/01/finland_caution ed_about_prison_conditions_492308.html</a>

heipauli · 01-23-09 12:24 am

David, I considered sending just the link you provided, but considered against it, not that I were ashamed of our prison system (actually, if I ever will be sentenced to prison, I prefer serve the prisonment just in a Finnish jail if possible), but as there are limits on how much info on Finland many of you can digest in a short time, I declined. There is a saying: "The best is an enemy to good", meaning that if a good cause is exaggerated, it will become counterproductive. Finland has for example got reproof from human rights people because of the treatment JW's, who are total objectors, at least many of them. They refuse to go to the army. But they refuse any other, humanitarian service, too, like serving in a hospital or day care center or in a fire brigade. In their opinion they should be exempted from all activity related with defending one's country. IMHO, if they are not sentenced to jail, next they will invent to refuse paying taxes, because some of the money will be used to the defence budget. IOW, they want to be free-riders due to their religion. All the benefits and none obligations. Should they get what they want? As the human rights organizations tend to exaggerate and are too ambitious, it automatically will diminish their authority. Their opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt. But sometimes there has been a justified reason when they have criticized Finland. There is room to become better, even here ;-)

heipauli · 01-23-09 12:49 am

Actually in my previous message I was a little bit inaccurate. In reality JWs have been exempted even from jail (if the reason has been their religious conviction) but that usage has lately met strong protests, as many doubt that some young men have joined to JWs just temporarily, in order to avoid their responsibilities. Those condemned to prison have _not_ been JWs but refusers for ethical reasons. At their treatment has caused uproar from the human rights people. In a way those protests have been valid: why should an ethical excuse be less valuable than a religious one?

heipauli · 01-23-09 1:13 am

As regards life in a Finnish prison, that is luxury compared with most European countries, except perhaps Sweden. Of Norvegian or Danish prison I have not read enough to give any appraisal on them. As I have announced my refusal to take stand on American issues, someone else must make a comparison between life in a Finnish prison vs. in an American one. <a href="http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/world-prison-pop-seventh.pdf" target=_top>http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/down loads/world-prison-pop-seventh.pdf</a> gives some statistics. According to it "The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 738 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by Russia (611)" In Finland there were 3551 prisoners in average (figure is for the year 2007). So the number of prisoners/100.000 inhabitans is for Finland one tenth of the figure of United States. Source: <a href="http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/17006.htm" target=_top>http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/17006.htm</a> What conclusions can be made? Obviously our systems of distributing justice is too lenient or too ineffective when compared with most other countries.

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#1 01-22-09 4:00 pm

To go or not go

#2 01-22-09 5:43 pm

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#3 01-23-09 12:24 am

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#4 01-23-09 12:49 am

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#5 01-23-09 1:13 am

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