The Gospel of John

bob_2 · 04-10-09 10:21 pm

The Gospel of John by William R. Cannon <a href="http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=692&C=922" target=_top>http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?tit le=692&C=922</a> <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Paul is the apostle of the crucifixion, teaching us that our salvation rests on the atonement, that Christ by his death on the cross made restitution for the sins of the whole world. John, however, is the apostle of the incarnation, teaching us that God became human in order that we might know him, come to love him, and by his grace be made like him, so that we, too, might become divine. In Jesus, the Word of the Father appeared for the first time in the flesh of humanity. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> I like the question at the end of this study: "The mission of the Word. . . is both successful and unsuccessful, depending on the response it evokes." Is the validity of God'S message proven only because and when people accept it? Is success having people agree with you? and this one: Why do you think the Virgin Birth is omitted from the Gospel which calls Jesus the incarnation of God? Also here: <a href="http://www.tektonics.org/uz/virginbirth.html" target=_top>http://www.tektonics.org/uz/virginbirth.html</a> notice: "How can you believe in the virgin birth? It's not mentioned anywhere else in the NT besides Matthew and Luke. This indicates that it was either a late invention or one not favored by the early church, because the other NT writers would surely have mentioned something this remarkable and relevant." This sort of objection demonstrates a lack of realization that there is NO relevance for the virgin birth in the places where it is lacking mention. Remember, the NT materials were written to people who ALREADY believed the Gospel. By the time the were reading this stuff, they had already accepted all of the basic tenets, and already had all the basic information. Furthermore, Paul (and I would also argue, the other epistle-writers) was writing "problem-oriented" letters - so that there was really no need to go out of the way to mention anything that he did not have pertinence for. (It also matches the point that the NT was written in a "high context" setting on which people's background knowledge of events was substantially assumed, as opposed to our "low context" society in which we feel a need to explain everything, every time!)

john8verse32 · 04-11-09 12:01 pm

lets start our study of the book of John at the beginning: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, this brings up an interesting question, which we will research the scriptures to answer. It appears at first view that the writer of john is correct... no man has seen God, because if you did, you would die, according to the Old Test... Exodus 33:20 There shall no man see me, and live. and according to the two Johns and others writing in the New Test, God is apparently invisible: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time. John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father. 1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. 1 Timothy 6:16 Whom no man hath seen nor can see. 1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. Judges 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. ok...so its settled, right? John was correct in claiming that "no man hath seen God at anytime. but wait!!!!!! there are other texts claiming the opposite!!! you CAN see God..and still live!!! : Jacob even wrestled with God, and WON!!!! somebody even saw Gods backside!!! Moses chatted with Him face to face!!! Job, whose kids were killed while God watched without interceeding in the wager between God and the devil, even says he saw God.. God appeared to Olde Abe...even told him to leave the well watered land of Harran and go try to subsist in a desert where his offspring would later be forced to leave by drought for another river where they would become slaves!!! so is John wrong? and many have seen God? lets check out the innerrant source: Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him.... Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre. Genesis 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. Genesis 26:24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not. Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 35:9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan. Exodus 3:16 The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you. Exodus 4:5 That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee. Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob.... Exodus 24:9-11 here Moses, Aaron, and a cuppla guys, plus 70 (thats right, the magic 70) other guys actually party with God!!! Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink. Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:23 And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts. Numbers 14:14 For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face. Deuteronomy 5:4 The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire. Deuteronomy 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. 1 Kings 22:19 I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Psalm 63.2 To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary. Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw,.. the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up. and just to make sure this type of "seeing" was not a dream or vision.... Isaiah 6:5 For mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Ezekiel 1:27 And saw ... the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward.... Ezekiel 20:35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. Amos even saw the Lord working as a plumber: Amos 7:7 The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. Amos 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake. another prophet sees God with horns: Habakkuk 3:3-5 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand. and even the angels see God all the time: Matthew 18:9 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. soooooooo what are we to make of all this....???? if the very first cpt of John brings up a question which cannot be answered conclusively from other texts which are part of what we once believed was the innerrant word of God, what are we to believe of the rest of the Gospel of John????

bob_2 · 04-11-09 4:25 pm

John notice in the Gospel of John: John 14:6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." How's that, further contradiction or clarification. Figuative or literal. Are you being petty about literary devices, are you interested in salvation or such petty literary device that if studied would clarify themselves.

john8verse32 · 04-12-09 12:29 am

Bob..notice in the Gospel of John: John 1:40-42, 3:22-24 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone. ... After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet cast into prison." so the calling of Andrew and Peter came BEFORE John theBaptist was cast into prison.. but wait.... another inerrant Gospel says otherwise: Mark 1:14-17 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee .... Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. so whom do we believe: John? or the other Gospel? How's that, further contradiction or clarification??? (Message edited by john8verse32 on April 12, 2009)

john8verse32 · 04-12-09 1:11 am

(according to John 1 and 2) 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: (1:9) "Baptized of John in Jordan" 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. (1:11) "Thou art my beloved son." soooooo...according to John, immediatly after Jesus baptism, Jesus goes into the wilderness for 40days. or did He? because according to Mark....right after the baptism.... 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: (1:35, 43; 2:1) 2:2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. so which was it? 40 days in the wilderness? or a marriage ceremony?

bob_2 · 04-12-09 1:16 am

This discrepancy would cause you to give up your salvation, offered by Jesus???

bob_2 · 04-12-09 1:20 am

I've written letters and business papers, and looked back and said, how could I have left that out. You and Elaine, you have nothing to replace this Book with, it's way to eternal life. Your logic, your libraries, your knowledge, are foolishness next to God/Jesus plan of salvation. Let the scholars dissect it, but don't throw away your salvation over issues like this.

bob_2 · 04-12-09 1:29 am

<a href="http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/mark01b_2.htm" target=_top>http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/ma rk01b_2.htm</a> I notice your questions aren't original, why not supply the source, or does the word atheism scare you. Atheism leads to death and dust, if that scares you it should, and is meant to.

john8verse32 · 04-12-09 7:17 pm

Your logic, your libraries, your knowledge, are foolishness next to God/Jesus plan of salvation but the "library" I referred to was the Bible... a collection of books, which, while you say lead to eternal life, cannot always agree on interesting details.... doesn't that raise the question of inerrancy? and doesn't that mean we still have a lot to find out about all this? suggesting that the prepackaged plan may need a little more research and verification? I for one surely wish it all had been more consistant, convincing, and verifiable. It woudda made my life a whole lot easier to know with 100% certainty that everything was exactly as I had been told.

bob_2 · 04-12-09 7:27 pm

Men wrote the Bible. The library that I am referring to is the skeptical one that you and Elaine seem to continue to refer to. The inconsistency I don't see as critical. I guess it's game over for you and Elaine. Too bad. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/sad.gif" border=0>

john8verse32 · 04-13-09 12:26 am

John 3:13 no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. sounds like Jesus was the only one to go up to heaven.... if you believe John. but what if you read some of the other authors who describe others going up to heaven? Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; For God took him. 2 Kings 2:11 Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. Hebrews 11:5 Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him. and somewhere, (I'll find it later), Paul tells of a guy he knew who went up to heaven AND came back!!!! again: what to believe?

john8verse32 · 04-13-09 12:41 am

Did Jesus baptize anybody???? John says yes: John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. but John also says NO!!!! John 4:2 ...Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples. modern English translations do not help: 22 Later, Jesus and his disciples went to Judea, where he stayed with them for a while and was baptizing people but no, it wasn't Jesus doing the baptizing: John 4:1 Jesus knew that the Pharisees had heard that he was winning and baptizing more followers than John was. 2 But Jesus' disciples were really the ones doing the baptizing, and not Jesus himself in prior posts we have a case of John not agreeing, even disagreeing with other gospel writers, while here the story told within the same gospel is either wrong, or unsure of what really happened internally. small details? yes.... but why can't the handbook of how to get to heaven (or our loving god is going to burn you to death) have been written without these nagging detailed uncertainties?

bob_2 · 04-13-09 9:53 am

John, here is John Gill's clarification of the matter: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Verse 13. And no man hath ascended into heaven,.... Though Enoch and Elias had, yet not by their own power, nor in the sense our Lord designs; whose meaning is, that no man had, or could go up to heaven, to bring from thence the knowledge of divine and heavenly things; in which sense the phrase is used in Deuteronomy 30:12, and which may be illustrated by John 1:18; wherefore inasmuch as Nicodemus had acknowledged Christ to he a teacher come from God, our Lord, would have him know, that he was the only teacher of heavenly things, as being the only person that had been in heaven, and in the bosom of the Father; and therefore, if he, and the rest of the Jews, did not receive instructions from him, they must for ever remain ignorant; for there never had been, nor was, nor could be, any mere man that could go up to heaven, and learn the mysteries of God, and of the kingdom of heaven, and return and instruct men in them:<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/john/gill/john3.htm" target=_top>http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/john/gill/john3 .htm</a>

bob_2 · 04-13-09 9:58 am

John said: <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=5&post=3791#POST3791" target=_top>http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?t pc=5&post=3791#POST3791</a> If the disciples did the baptizing, and He was with them, so what. I see no contradiction other than you seeing a contradiction. Bet you got that on out of one of your skeptical writer lists. Eh?????

john8verse32 · 04-13-09 10:14 am

and Gill's "clarification" reads like a clintonesque pentagoneese Obama apology. confused, confusing, out of date, .... how does Gill explain away this? John 4:24 God is a spirit and according to Luke...spirits do not have bodies Luke 24:39 For a spirit hath not flesh and bones. but throughout the Bible, people walk with God, they talk to Him face to face...Jacob even wrestles with Him.... Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day. Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. He even has hands: Exodus 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. He even has "backparts" Exodus 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. he must have legs if He can stand: Exodus 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there. He can walk, must have legs: Deuteronomy 23:12-13 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp.... and He has loins to make those legs work: Ezekiel 1:27 And saw ... the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward.... Ezekiel 8:2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward.... worst? His hands have horns !!! Habakkuk 3:3-4 God ... had horns coming out of his hand. sounds like God had/has an actual body, not like the ephemeral spirt described by John.... again: whom do we believe?

john8verse32 · 04-13-09 10:20 am

did the Samaritans receive Jesus? yes, and He spent two days with them: John 4:39-40 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. No, they did not receive Jesus. Luke 9:52-53 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him. how does Gill explain away that minor problem?

pilgrim99 · 04-13-09 1:10 pm

John, John, are you quite sure that the John 4 and Luke 9 passages are referring to the same incident? <a href="http://bible.org/page.php?page_id=5934" target=_top>Are There Contradictions in the Gospels?</a> might be helpful to you, provided that you are looking for Truth. If you aren't, then you will not find Him, and the article, or the Bible for that matter will be of little value to you. Matter of fact, it might be more profitable for you to spend your time reading Dilbert.

elaine · 04-13-09 3:22 pm

To put all of one's faith in a book with so many contradictions and discrepancies, is a sign of mindless faith. Did God give us our minds for discerning truth and error? How can one discern error if he is convinced that everything within a book is absolutely inerrant and infallible if he ignores such contradictions? Honesty demands that they be explained, not merely covered up. Or, do you prefer that one's political life or actions should be equally covered up? What happens to truth, if one defines "Truth" as also containing multiple errors? How can truth and lies be coming from the same source? Simply recognizing, as honesty demands, that the Bible is NOT written by God but by men who make mistakes, and that the writers never intended to write historical biography, nor was accuracy ever expected from the ancient world. Their "histories" were filled with embellished and glorified deeds of the protagonists and cannot be verified by any secular source. Only the Bible claims miraculous events, beginning with an impossible virgin birth and continues in such characteristic fashion. Is faith built on a trust in God, or faith in the Bible? If the latter, it is biblioaltry: worship of the Bible; which is a rather recent phenomenon, as as for most of Judeo-Christian history they worshiped God, not their Scriptures.

bob_2 · 04-13-09 4:44 pm

OK, Elaine, fire away, tell me how what your faith is based on, what reliable source tells you how you gain eternal life? How would the concept even enter your head if you claim the virgin birth is impossible, [an amazing claim, by the way, which I have never heard stated by any one claiming to be a Christian or to be able to have eternal life. John, you're welcome to chime in at any time also, unless you are atheistic, then the assignment doesn't apply. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0>]BTW, Elaine, why do those of you that attend the Fresno SDA church do so, is it a social club, tea and coffee served, then the basics of Christianity torn apart based on YOUR study, what are you a new David Koresh, female version??? (Message edited by Bob_2 on April 13, 2009) (Message edited by Bob_2 on April 13, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-13-09 5:10 pm

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Philippians 2:1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Which of your skeptical books has the answer Elaine???????

john8verse32 · 04-13-09 6:34 pm

should we judge people? Luke says no...we shouldn't 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Matt Agrees: 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. But in John (7:24) Jesus says we should "judge righteous judgment." And Paul (1 Cor.2:15, 5:12-13, 6:2-3) tells Christians to judge everyone -- believers, non-believers, even the angels are to be judged by "the saints." To judge or not to judge 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again but.... all these writers say we SHOULD judge others!!! Leviticus 19:15 In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life but either God or Jesus will judge us, right? does jesus judge people? apparently, yes...Jesus judges people: John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son. again.... John 5:26-27 The Father ... hath given him authority to execute judgment. again... John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world. paul agrees, we must all be judged, by Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. John the Revelator seems to agree: Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. but wait: the same John who above says Jesus is the judge, tells us not to judge: John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; judge no man. but then, John quotes Jesus, which seems to indicate jesus does not want to judge!!! John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge so which is it? John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world. or John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge why can't the message be consistant, even within the same gospel????? and how could a loving God burn to death those who still are searching for answers to these type of questions which are inconsistantly treated in the collection of writings by which we either receive eternal life or get BBQ'ed? wouldn't a loving God take the time to insure that the message set out was consistant, clear, and convincing? before painfully killing all those whom the inconsistant message failed to convince? (Message edited by john8verse32 on April 13, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-13-09 8:05 pm

Context John, no final judgement here, but.... <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:And that they which see might be made blind; that such who are wise and knowing in their own conceit, who fancy themselves to have great light and knowledge, to have the key of knowledge, and to have the true understanding of divine things, and to be guides of the blind, such as the Scribes and Pharisees, might be given up to judicial blindness and hardness of heart, so as to shut their eyes, and harden their hearts against the Gospel, and the truths of it, and which was in judgment to them: such different effects Christ and his Gospel have, as to illuminate and soften some, and blind and harden others; just as some creatures, as bats and owls, are blinded by the sun, whilst others see clearly by the light of it; and as that also has these different effects to soften the wax, and harden the clay; see Isaiah 6:9.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/john/gill/john9.htm" target=_top>http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/john/gill/john9 .htm</a>

bob_2 · 04-13-09 8:07 pm

Isaiah 6:9 He said, "Go and tell this people: " 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' That last verse reminds me of John and Elaine.

bob_2 · 04-13-09 8:11 pm

No, John, you are not the judge and should not judge people, Christ is the judge, and His very presence convicts, yet His final judgement which He will do is yet to come, and His first advent was not to finally judge but to act to save. Those Pharisees could yet change and in the final judgement be judged righteous if they chose right. I personally think you are reading these questions from a book like Jesus Interrupted or another skeptic's book.

pilgrim99 · 04-13-09 9:01 pm

John, It is fairly obvious that you are not seeking Truth, or understanding. Until your heart and mind are renewed, stick to Dilbert, he has more value for you than the Bible. Without a renewed mind and heart, it is impossible to follow these instructions<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:My child, if you receive my words,and store up my commands within you, by making your ear attentive to wisdom, and by turning your heart to understanding, indeed, if you call out for discernment – raise your voice for understanding – if you seek it like silver, and search for it like hidden treasure, then you will understand how to fear the Lord, and you will discover knowledge about God. For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth comes knowledge and understanding. He stores up effective counsel for the upright, and is like a shield for those who live with integrity, to guard the paths of the righteous and to protect the way of his pious ones. Then you will understand righteousness and justice and equity – every good way. For wisdom will enter your heart, and moral knowledge will be attractive to you. Discretion will protect you, understanding will guard you, to deliver you from the way of the wicked, from those speaking perversity, Proverbs 2:1-12 NET<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Are you personally seeking to understand, in the same way that you seek silver or hidden treasure?<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:The beginning of wisdom is to fear the Lord, and acknowledging the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10 NET<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> And before you go off on another tangent, the fear that is being referenced can be understood in context as respect, or reverence. What do you think that Jesus meant, when he answered this question from His disciples?<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Then the disciples came to him and said, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He replied, “You have been given the opportunity to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but they have not. Matthew 13:10, 11 NET<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Unfortunately John, reading the Bible, in your apparent current condition really is like reading mail addressed to other people. Maybe you find that to be a profitable activity, I don't. Christians are not expected to check their brains at the door when entering church, or engaging in Bible study but an un-renewed mind will NEVER understand the Bible. I'd go a step further and say that it is impossible for an un-renewed mind to even study the Bible. The result of this type of activity is the type of nonsense that you post. Several years ago, I would have been posting the same things as you currently do. Please stick to Dilbert, he really is of more value to you at this point than your approach to the Bible. In the same way that I encouraged Elaine to engage with the message found in the Gospel of John, I also encourage you to do likewise. Until you have come to a point of decision and accept who Jesus really is, it will all be gobbledygook to you. Making the right decision does not eliminate truly difficult Bible passages, but does allow you to understand reasonable explanations. On a personal note, my language skills, while nothing to boast about, have improved significantly, since I became a believer and actually began serious Bible study. This message might seem a little harsh, but it is intended to give you pause and to encourage you to reconsider. Not to cause you harm, hurt or any negative result. (Message edited by pilgrim99 on April 13, 2009)

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Re: The Gospel of John

#17 04-13-09 1:10 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#18 04-13-09 3:22 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#19 04-13-09 4:44 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#20 04-13-09 5:10 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#21 04-13-09 6:34 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#22 04-13-09 8:05 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#23 04-13-09 8:07 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#24 04-13-09 8:11 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

#25 04-13-09 9:01 pm

Re: The Gospel of John

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