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Don said: Using the God-given idea of tithing is not a sin. Where in the Bible is it a sin to tithe?
Tom said: It is a great sin for the church to embrace Old Covenant Tithing. Perhaps you did not know this? Now you know!
James 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.
Tithing cannot be the “right thing to do” in the church because the apostles never promoted or practiced such a doctrine. They set up a different system to finance the Gospel.
So how can tithing ever become a sacred and correct doctrine for the church? Answer: It can NEVER become “sacred doctrine.”
Tithing is the WRONG THING to do in the church. THE “RIGHT THING” is to follow the teaching and practice of the apostles and not tithe, and not set up a hierarchy like the RCC. Those that fail to follow the apostles in this matter, are committing sin.
Tithe paying in the church is a great sin. Just like ritual circumcision was declared a great sin by Paul in Galatians. They are both part of the OC laws that were made obsolete by the New Covenant.
Does any SDA today really think that the apostolic church practiced tithing? I know this is what the Adventists taught for generations. I grew up believing this, and so too did all SDA’s. But we now know it was never true, and that it never happened. There is no scholar in the world that can show that the apostolic church tithed. This is just one more SDA myth that must be exposed and repudiated as false and wrong.
So why do SDA’s still pretend that tithe is a true New Covenant doctrine?
Answer: For money and control.
Most people would lie for large sums of money. And most all people will eagerly lie for billions of dollars. Especially those that claim to be holy and religious. The SDA’s are great and proud liars. They do it for the money, and to keep control of the church.
However, the common faith of the church, which was handed down from the apostles in the NT, does not include tithing. The Early Church developed another method called sharing. This is a fact that cannot be refuted.
Which is why the SDA’s are trapped. They must either repent of OC tithe and embrace Gospel Reform, and re-organize themselves, or continue to go their own way, as a corrupt, self-destructing cult that no longer represents the Advent Movement.
Jude 3: Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Tithing was never practiced in the apostolic church any more than was the Sunday Lord’s Day. Tithe has no support from the apostles, any more than ritual circumcision or the Easter Bunny. Thus NT Tithe is a false and dangerous doctrine that distorts and ruins the Gospel.
Let’s take a look at some additional reasons why it is a sin to tithe in the church:
1. It is a sin for anyone to teach a false and distorted view of the Gospel.
Any church leader, that associates Old Covenant tithe paying, “or Circumcision”, with the Gospel has made a great error. Old Covenant tithing is not a NC doctrine; anyone who says otherwise is promoting a false Gospel. They are to be cursed and condemned, in public, for all to see.
Gal. 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal. 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal. 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal. 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Tithing, like ritual circumcision, is not a New Covenant doctrine; it is against the Gospel on a number of levels. The SDA’s have acted like Peter and distorted the Gospel, even as they have embraced a false organizational system that has gone corrupt.
The SDA’s are great blasphemers to teach that tithe is Gods will for the church. At first they could be excused because they were so uneducated and naïve, but not now. Today, they have been caught telling outrageous lies about God, the Bible, and church finance. And they have no intention to repent. They are going to stick to their story no matter what.
But guess what? The SDA’s have no right to speak lies in the name of God, or to mislead anyone about Gospel. They must be confronted and exposed for all to see. They must confess and stop this great sin or their names will be removed from the Book of Life.
2. Tithe creates the sin of division.
Tithe creates two distinct classes of people in the SDA church. Those that pay tithe are part of the elites that manage and control the local, regional, and national church. Those that do not pay tithe are not allowed to serve in any official capacity at either the local or higher levels. Non-tithers are essentially relegated to second-class status, even as they are never allowed to work for the church until they embrace tithing.
Such a system shows great prejudice and partiality to those that agree to what is essentially a membership tax. But OC tithing does not work in a NC context. The result creates great division and shows partiality to those that pay tithe, even as those that don’t are pushed to the sidelines, regardless of their spiritual gifts or talents. This is sinful, wrong, and against the Gospel.
Then to make matters worse, the reception, ownership, and control of the tithe creates an arrogant and oppressive hierarchy, which is forbidden in the NT.
Matt. 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
Matt. 20:26 “It is not this way among you, abut whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant,
Matt. 20:27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
Matt. 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His 1life a ransom for many.”
Thus, the SDA system is not set up for servant leaders, but for tithe collectors, taskmasters, and false tutors. The members role is to serve the needs of the leaders and to send them their resources, forever, simply because they, the SDA leaders, are in charge, just like the Levites in the OT.
A few men have gained both the procedural and doctrinal control over the many, even as the members are not allowed any ownership interest or free speech, much less any meaningful voice in the policy, doctrines, or management of the church.
In other words, tithe allows the leaders so much power and control that they soon go corrupt and rule with an anti-Gospel hand. The leaders have arranged things so that they are not held accountable to the people, even though they take the money of the people.
So Tithe in the church creates the sin of division and partiality. It divides the church, silences the critics, and creates a hierarchy like that of Old Covenant Judaism and the RCC. It raises men up to places of power that the NT does not condone. It also places wolves and hired hands in charge of the sheep.
Those SDA’s who promote and practice Tithe are guilty of great sin. They must repent if they want to remain in the Kingdom of God.
James 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
3. NT Tithing is a lie
When it comes to tithe and church history, the SDA’s are great liars. Those that teach tithe is the will of God for the church are lying. Tithe is not Gods will for the church, nor can it be the will or teachings of the apostles. There is zero truth to this great and sinful SDA lie.
So while the SDA’s claim to uphold the law, they break it all the time because they are lying about tithe. It is not a NC doctrine.
Luke 18:20 “You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’”
1John 2:21 no lie is of the truth.
1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
Tithe is darkness in the Church. Those that practice it do not understand the Gospel correctly, nor do they have Eternal Life. They are confused, dangerous, liars.
To bear false witness against the NT is a great sin. To tell lies about church history and to fabricate a story that the apostles practiced tithing, and abstinence, etc, is very sinful.
The SDA’s are promoting false testimony about God and Gospel finance. They are purposely deceiving the sheep with this billion-dollar scam that also keeps their cultic hierarchy in complete and total power. Tithe funds an evil hierarchy, and keeps the Advent Movement in bondage to their Old Covenant taskmasters.
It is time for the lies and double-talk to stop. Tithing in the church is a great lie and a great sin. Every Sabbath the SDA Pastors around the word join in deceiving the members by lying to them about tithe. But it is very wrong to lie about money in the name of God. The church should not be full or lies or liars. This is not of the Gospel Way.
Col. 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
So here is yet another reason why tithing is sinful. It represents dishonesty and deceit. It is a false church doctrine supported by liars, and defended by lies and half-truths.
Tithe is a disgusting doctrine that has no place in the church.
Those that think otherwise are banished from the Kingdom of God. They will spend time with murderers and liars in the lake of fire. This is the fate of all those that teach the great lie of NT Tithing.
Rev. 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The SDA church leaders are great liars. They distort the Gospel and teach all manner of fiction, like tithe. It is time to hold these wolves accountable for what they teach. They have it all wrong, and tithe is just one of their many false and dishonest doctrines.
4. Tithing Not a Gospel Doctrine:
Tithing is not of Faith: It belongs in the Old Covenant, for which it was designed. Those that practice tithe today must obey all the rest of the OC law as well, including ritual circumcision. But of course this is impossible for many reasons, the first being that there are no longer any Levites to accept the tithe.
So the SDA’s are not coming close to “following how the Jews” really paid tithe in the OC. They are just taking the principle and making up their own doctrine of what they think it should be today. But neither God nor the NT supports their creation of NT Tithing. It is a blasphemous farce that is based on anti-Gospel legalism.
The book of Galatians, when understood properly, is very instructive about the difference between the Two Covenants. Paul explains that neither circumcision nor tithing can be a church doctrine because they are not based faith. Thus tithing is not a NC or Gospel doctrine, but false doctrine and sin.
Rom. 14:23 whatever is not from faith is sin.
Gal. 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”
Gal. 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal. 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Tithing belongs to another age and another paradigm. It is not a Gospel doctrine. The SDA’s have made fools of themselves for what they have done. There can be no ritual circumcision or a separate Priesthood in the church, much less tithing and a religious hierarchy. The SDA’s have gone mad. They no longer represent the Advent Movement or the Pioneers. They are no longer Protestants, but only great Pretenders.
Tithing is part of the Old Covenant law, “God’s idea”, which supported the Levitical priests and the Temple cult. It was part of a system that also featured male circumcision, along with all manner of rules and rituals about bathing, eating, worshipping, etc. As the Gospel Story propelled Judaism from the Old Covenant to the New, the Christian Faith was born, even as the Romans destroyed OC Judaism and brought their tithing, Temple, and Priesthood to an end.
The great apostolic debate between Peter and Paul took place before 70 AD, when the OC Temple cult was alive and well. Thus Galatians highlights the clash between the Two Covenants, and two competing views of the Gospel.
Those today, like the SDA’s, who claim that tithing is sacred, are taking the side of Peter in this debate. They are allowing OC law to distort the Gospel, even as they are repudiating Paul’s Gospel and preaching a fraud. They did this in 1888, and again in 1980, and now in the 21st century. If they don’t repent and confess, this is the end for them.
Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
Gal. 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Gal. 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”
Those that embrace tithe in the SDA church are making the same mistakes as those in the apostolic church that wanted to impose circumcision and food laws as doctrine. But Paul made it clear that such OC ways have been replaced by the freedom of a new and very different paradigm.
Gal. 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
Gal. 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Gal. 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, or embrace tithing and a priesthood, and the OC Sabbath, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal. 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, “or pays tithe, etc.” that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal. 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Those who think tithe paying is Gods will for the church do not understand the Gospel, nor are they saved. They have the OC Spirit of the law, and thus they are under the law and not the Gospel.
Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
The doctrine of tithe paying in the church is against the Gospel. Those that try and follow this OC practice, in the name of God, are committing a great sin, and blasphemy. Such an error keeps them from understanding the Gospel and embracing the true teachings of the apostles that alone can lead to Eternal Life.
To tithe, is to reject Paul’s Gospel and forfeit salvation. Let all understand the seriousness of this evil practice that has created a corrupt hierarchy that has hijacked the Advent Movement.
Don, an advocate for tithe said: Economic Freedom in Christ.
Tom asked; What does this mean? Those that embraced Christ were often times deprived of their material possessions, even as they were persecuted for the sake of Christ.
Heb. 11:35 others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
Heb. 11:36 and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
Heb. 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
Heb. 11:38 “men of whom the world was not worthy” wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
In addition, Jesus said that few rich people would enter the Kingdom of God. So following Jesus was very bad for ones balance sheet and their health.
Most often there was no financial benefit for embracing Christ, much less economic freedom, for being a Christian. Which explains why some, like Demas, left the early church in order to become wealthy.
2Tim. 4:9 Make every effort to come to me soon;
2Tim. 4:10 for Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica; Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.
2Tim. 4:11 Only Luke is with me.
The Gospel frees one from the authority and rules of the Pharisees. For all that embrace the Gospel, there is “economic freedom” from the many hierarchical rules of their religious leaders. NO Christian should pay any tithe or offering to anyone claiming to be Gods tax collector on earth. Especially to those so incompetent and dishonest that they speak lies in the name of God about money and salvation.
All that embrace the Gospel are free from the OC doctrine of tithing, even as they are free to work on the Sabbath or do most any other thing on the 7th day without being guilty. The Gospel Sabbath is very different from the OC, tithe supported version that the SDA’s promote. They represent the Pharisees in the Gospel Story. They are the false Sheppard’s that have been lying to the people about the law and Gospel.
Those that have been promoting tithe all these years have proven that they do no know the Gospel or how to read the Bible. They have exposed themselves as blasphemous frauds, incompetent, foolish, and very greedy. Tithe is a great scam that must be repudiated by the Advent Movement, even as their wicked hierarchy is dismantled or replaced.
Don said: The Christianity I adhere to looks to Jesus as the liberator from all amoral regulations.
Tom said: What does this double-talk mean? Your Jesus is a fraud. The genuine Christ repudiates the SDA lie about the Adventists being the tithe “storehouse” for the church. Jesus does not approve of any form of tithing or taxation in the church, much less by those that hate the Gospel.
Jesus does not agree that it is Gods will to tithe in the church, and thus, as an SDA Pastor, you have been following a false and stupid Christ, and so too has the SDA church.
Don said: He has done so without dismantling sound divine principles.
Tom said: More double-talk. But this time I know what you are trying to say. You are trying to defend tithe, because in your mind it contains “sound and divine principles.” But this is a wrong assumption.
OC Judaism has been replaced with a better religion and a better method of church financing, even as the Gospel has eclipsed the OLD Covenant.
The fact of the matter is that Tithe came to an end, along with the Priesthood and Temple services, in 70 AD. Not even the Jews were able to practice it after that time, nor did they try.
But yet the SDA’s come along, in the person of D. M. Canright, of all people, and think that they can resurrect this OC doctrine and pretend that they are the fulfillment of the ancient Jewish Temple, and that their Pastors are the new Priests, and that God declares tithe to be paid to them.
Wow! Who is going to believe this nonsense? Not anyone that is educated about the Gospel Story.
Tithe in the SDA church is a monumental error, a test to see who understands the Gospel and who does not. Those that think it valid have failed the test. Their “sound and divine principles” will be the source of their eternal doom. Even as they failed to embrace the Word properly and understand the Gospel.
Let all understand that the SDA’s have zero authority to teach or practice tithe. They are making great fools of themselves to think otherwise. Unless they repent, they are doomed, just like the Jews that also embraced tithe and many other laws.
Don said: Freedom in Christ means not only freedom from guilt but freedom from burdensome regulations. Jesus’s yoke is easy; his burden is light.
Tom said: Too bad that we can’t have freedom from the double-talk of the SDA’s? Tithe is a great burden, even a perpetual tax. On whose authority does the SDA church get to tax anyone and place such a burden on the local church? They have no such authority, and there is no such doctrine as tithe in the church, much less a hierarchy that owns all the local churches that were paid for by those at the community level.
No one who believes the Gospel should ever pay tithe to anyone. Those that do, must fulfill all the many OC laws, rules, and regulations. They will never be saved with such a warped view of religion.
Don said: Some key economic principles supported by Jesus and the Apostles:
Tom said: There is no “economical principle” in the Bible that justifies the SDA hierarchy owning all the local churches and stamping out free speech and free press. The apostles did not develop a real estate empire, much less try and own and micro manage the local churches with propaganda and censorship.
The Church cannot practice Old Covenant tithing or own the local churches. The true church cannot have a hierarchy like the RCC, but yet this is what they have. This is all wrong.
The SDA’s do not have the right or the authority to insert tithing into the New Covenant. D. M. Canright was hardly an apostle. Rather, he was a flaming legalist and egomaniac that misunderstood the Gospel and turned against the Advent Movement a few years after his view of tithing became practice in the church.
Tithing is not a Gospel principle, but one of law. So it was not meant for the church, which is why the apostles never allowed it, or anything like it.
Don said: Justice, mercy and faith are more important than something like tithing, but Jesus endorsed careful tithing. See Matthew 23:23
Tom said: There is no record that Jesus ever paid tithe, much less that he “endorsed careful tithing.” This is just how the SDA’s spin the Bible to make it say what they want.
So here is another SDA myth that must be placed in the garbage. Matt 23 only proves that the Pharisees were obsessed with tithing. And we know that the Pharisees were the bad guys in the Gospel Story, so this reference to tithe proves nothing good about tithe, much less that it should become doctrine in the church.
As for Jesus paying tithe, he was not required to pay tithes. Nor did he. See this.
The Bible clearly teaches that only Israelite landowners and Israelite herdsmen inside Israel were required to tithe their increase. This very narrow, but true, definition eliminates all non-landowners, all tradesmen, and all who were too unfortunate to afford raising stock animals for a living in Israel. Neither was this narrow definition of tithing ever changed among Jews for over a thousand years; it was still the definition during the time of Jesus.
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id23.html
http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/tithing1.html
Jesus did not own land or farm it, and thus he did not pay tithe, nor did he instruct his apostles to embrace this OC practice. Anyone who tries to tithe today is on their own, as neither God nor Jesus has ever instructed anyone in the church to practice tithing.
Matt. 15:7 “You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
Matt. 15:8 ‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Matt. 15:9 ‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’”
1Tim. 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Moreover, the issue of tithing is not whether the Jews practiced it, but if it was embraced and adopted by the church. It is clear that the apostolic church never embraced, practiced, or promoted tithe, and thus no church can do so today.
Don said: It is proper for Gospel Workers to “live off the Gospel” much like the priests did in the Hebrew economy.
Tom said: There is no basis for tithe in this passage. Those that were Priests in the OC lived off the tithe from the majority who were not Priests. In the NC, EVERYONE is a priest, regardless of his or her spiritual gifts or gender.
Such a distinction prohibits the practice of tithe in the NC and is one reason why it was NEVER practiced in the apostolic church.
Don said: In fact, God has directed that this should happen. Paul put it this way: Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? 14So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:13, 14


Tom said: Cor 9: 13, 14 does not embrace tithe in the church, or show that it was practiced. In fact, Paul’s second letter to those in Corinth forbids tithe, even as his words were made in the context of church giving. Pay attention:
2Cor. 9:6 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
2Cor. 9:7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Paul is not making a suggestion, rather, he is commanding all, and teaching all, that they are each, personally, in charge of their giving program. Thus “each one MUST”. Not each one MAY give of his own free will; whatever amount they choose.
Paul is contrasting the freedom to give any amount versus the law, which demands 10%. The law is compulsory, but Gospel giving is not. The law of tithe does not let one “decide in their hearts” what to give, but tells them what they must give.
Paul’s “MUST do” commands about giving in the church are a clear repudiation of tithe, which had already been correctly repudiated by Peter in the book of Acts, before Paul was ever a Christian.
So Paul is not saying anything different from the established position of the church, found in Acts.
It is the SDA’s that have fabricated stories about tithe, and it is the SDA’s that have misunderstood how the church is to be financed, organized, and managed.
Tithe and the Gospel of Paul do not mix.
Those that choose tithe, have repudiated Paul’s Gospel.
Let all SDA’s choose the Gospel of Paul and repudiate tithe, and the corrupt hierarchy that has foisted this scam on the Adventist Community.
Don said: Money often gets in the way of the Gospel enterprise. Give it to the poor. You don’t need money to follow Jesus without it. Mark 10:17-31.
Tom said: Ha! Unlike the Jews, the SDA’s don’t even exempt the poor from the obligation to tithe. In fact, before one gets to hear a sermon in any SDA church, there have been a number of impassioned pleas and prayers from the pulpit to encourage all to pay tithe and offerings. The tithe is seen as the duty of all, there are no exceptions for poverty.
The root of all evil in the church is the love of money. This is the real reason why the SDA’s don’t want to repent of tithe and confess it to be wrong. They love money; they think they need it to build their delusional religious Empire- that has no support from the apostles, reformers, or Adventist Pioneers. So it is all a waste anyway.
If the SDA’s have to lie about the doctrine of tithe in order to get the necessary funds to exist, then they have no reason to exist. The Gospel is not going to be correctly promoted by greedy liars and fools. Only a false Gospel can come out of such a sad situation.
Look around—this is what has happened!
Don said; If you have a talent for making money, like the men with the two and five talents, invest your talents in the Gospel enterprise. Eg. Our school needed a new gym. Several successful alumni donated over a million dollars and now our students, the community and the local churches have a facility useful to the Gospel enterprise.
Tom said: Too bad that the SDA’s don’t have a true or correct Gospel. They are not a “Gospel Enterprise” whatsoever. They have a distorted and false Gospel, as well as massive fraud taking place about Ellen White and church history. Who would want to invest in this dying and dishonest church unless they changed for the better?
Don said: Believers should view all their assets as part of the Gospel enterprise. Like the early believers after Pentecost. Eg.
Tom said: This is what every preacher, from every denomination says to their congregation. Most that talk this way do not care about the people, they just want their money so they can build up an empire for themselves to control.
Organized religion is so corrupt today, that no one should fall for this guilt trip. Besides, why should those that lie about doctrine, and suppress their history, like the SDA’s, be trusted with anyone’s money, much less with their souls?
The SDA’s do not have the Gospel, or Eternal Life, nor are they part of any worthwhile enterprise. If they do not soon repent, then this is the end of the line for them.
Don said: In one area, a local Adventist doctor had a swimming pool at his place. He would open his home every Saturday evening for the young people and other church members to encourage a social atmosphere; bolstering the Gospel enterprise.
Tom said: Do not confuse church community with the Gospel. Moreover, why be proud of a pool with so much false doctrine?
In conclusion: it is a great sin to embrace Old Covenant tithing in the church. It is the same sin as when the Judaizers wanted to impose ritual circumcision on the Gentile Christians. But Paul stood up for the Gospel. See the book of Galatians
While some claim there is nothing wrong with tithing, this is not true. It is an OC practice that was repudiated by the church for many reasons. Tithe is rebellion against the Gospel. It is sin to disregard the clear teachings and actions of the apostles about church finance and organization. It is no minor matter.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O101Adiaphora.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiaphora
http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txc/adiaphor.html
http://user.txcyber.com/~wd5iqr/beth/adiaph.html
Those that teach it is Gods will for the church to tithe, are committing the sin of blasphemy. They are lying about God and repudiating the teachings and behavior of his apostles.
Those that practice tithe are showing their ignorance of the Gospel and their total disregard for the authority of the apostles, underscoring the reason why they will forfeit Eternal Life.
Tithing in the church is a false, wrong, and wicked doctrine. It is NOT, NOT, NOT, sacred duty as the SDA’s teach. Nor can it be the will of heaven that large sums of money flow out of the local church for the benefit of a corrupt religious hierarchy. This is a recipe for disaster that will only get worse before it gets better.
The SDA church is guilty of many false doctrines, starting with a false Gospel and a false, Celestial Judgment that supposedly started in 1844.
Although tithe is one of their most important teachings, - it is a wretched and foolish doctrine that is against the Gospel and the Fundamentals of the Protestant Faith.
Tithe exposes the cultic incompetence and greed of the SDA’s. Tithing proves that the SDA’s would sell indulgences, if they could only get away with it. But Canright’s doctrine of NT tithing is a tribute to Tetzel, and to all those that misunderstand the Gospel and try to sell Eternal Life.
Today, the SDA’s are driven by the love of money and Empire building. This is what they are really all about. Tithe is one of their greatest doctrines, and the source of their false power and corrupt authority. When this fictional doctrine falls, so too will the dishonest and corrupt Adventist Hierarchy.
Let all pray that truth prevails in the SDA church.
Let all pray for Gospel Reform and Re- Organization to invigorate the dying Advent Movement. The end of the world has never been closer. It is time for Adventism to wake up and come alive.
Tom Norris for Adventist Reform
Last edited by tom_norris (02-10-10 5:27 pm)
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Tom said: Tom said: What does this double-talk mean? Your Jesus is a fraud. The genuine Christ repudiates the SDA lie about the Adventists being the tithe “storehouse” for the church. Jesus does not approve of any form of tithing or taxation in the church, much less by those that hate the Gospel.
He further said:Tithing in the church is a false, wrong, and wicked doctrine. It is NOT, NOT, NOT, sacred duty as the SDA’s teach. Nor can it be the will of heaven that large sums of money flow out of the local church for the benefit of a corrupt religious hierarchy. This is a recipe for disaster that will only get worse before it gets better.
Bob Shields says: If you are saying the SDA Jesus is a fraud then you intern have to say the same about Ellen White. She taught tithing to the point that it is salvic. You continue to avoid my posts on this subject Tom, why? Cat got your tongue? Why would your prophet teach a wicked doctrine? Her angel chimed in at times to support her claims. How is this possible?
If Adventism is ever going to listen to you they must first put Ellen in proper prospectus. This they are not ever going to be willing to do.
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Does any SDA today really think that the apostolic church practiced tithing?
Did the apostolic church conduct Sabbath Schools or produce Sabbath School quarterlies?
Did they run printing presses or hospitals?
I understand the problems felt with the enforcing of tithing with letter of the law written in stone. But I don't understand how an innovation by God with so much good sense can be called a sin. Circumcision was spoken against specifically. Tithing receives some positive connections. Jesus is reported to have endorsed the practice and Paul used the Old Covenant practice of supporting the Priesthood to endorse the financial support for Gospel ministers.
I do have a problem with any restrictive idea. i. e. If it is not mentioned in the NT then to design it is a sin. The Christian Church is to be free from Old Covenant rule making and restrictiveness. Let freedom, in Christ, reign. If a church wants to use the tithing principle, there is no prohibition of it found anywhere in Scripture.
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You all that are being persistent with this, it is self defeating as I have said. Money is the life blood of most organizations. SDA Church is no exception. Hopefully, there is other Life Blood being offered at the worship service each Saturday at 11:00 AM.
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Don, tithing is fine if the people want to take part in it. The problem is that the SDA Church tell us it is Biblical and if you don't participate you are robbing God. Can't you see that taking that stand is sin? God didn't require all Israelites to pay it. Only the Israelites who raised crops or animals paid tithe.
The Adventist tithing doctrine is false just like the prophet that wrote so much about it.
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The problem is that the SDA Church tell us it is Biblical and if you don't participate you are robbing God.
Notice 1 Corinthians 9 again<13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
If the Lord has commanded, then to go against such a command would be robbing, IMO. I believe that the SDA doctrine of Gospel stewardship could be stated better, but the basic principles are sound. It is the tithing principle of systematic giving that helps the church follow this New Testament command mentioned by Paul in 1 Corinthians 9. <
I don't think the Christian Church should, or even could, take on the Sanctuary system with its tithing regulations. But, if it chooses to arrange for those preaching the Gospel to receive their living from the Gospel through the tithing principle, it has a clear mandate to do so. To go against a sensible plan to ensure that ministers "receive their living from the Gospel can be said to be robbing God.
To call an idea endorsed by God and practiced from the time of Abraham and Jacob a sin, seems an affront to God.
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Let's balance this by this:
1 Tim 5:8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
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1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
All events of life provide lessons for us.
WILKES-BARRE, Pa., Sept. 1 - A Pennsylvania couple, on trial in the death of their son, sobbed today as their daughter told of seeing her brother dead Jan. 3, a victim of six weeks without food.
Laura Cottam, 12, was the opening witness for the defense in the trial of Larry and Leona Cottam. Her brother, Eric, 14, was 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighed 69 pounds when he died.
The Cottams went without food for six weeks last winter after Larry Cottam, a former Seventh-day Adventist minister, lost his job as a truck driver. They refused to spend $3,775 in savings because they considered the money a tithe for God. Church Chief Looks In
On Thursday, Jerry Page, the head of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Pennsylvania testified at the trial that a passage in the Bible equates personal use of a tithe with theft. But he added, Tithing is not a test of fellowship in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
A jury selected in Philadelphia is hearing the case in Luzerne County Court. Judge Gifford Cappellini decided an impartial jury could not be empaneled here. Laura Cottam is in foster care.
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Don said:
I don't think the Christian Church should, or even could, take on the Sanctuary system with its tithing regulations. But, if it chooses to arrange for those preaching the Gospel to receive their living from the Gospel through the tithing principle, it has a clear mandate to do so. To go against a sensible plan to ensure that ministers, receive their living from the Gospel can be said to be robbing God.
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Don, what is sensible about the tithing plan? It is most insensible. For instance, If I earn $100,000 I have $90,000 remaining after tithing. If I make 410,000 I have $9,000 remaining. Now you tell me if that $10,000 would make a real difference in keeping a household in a proper manner. Then tell me what effect the $1,000 would have on my household. Allow me to make the decision as to how much I can contribute.
It is no wonder the poorer class get discouraged and leave the church. There is no compassion by the leaders. They tell the poor that they are robbing God. Scripture tells us that the Israelite that didn't have 10 cattle didn't have to give one to the Levities under the plan of God. The Adventist Church is propagating a lie. It doesn't have enough faith to allow the Holy Spirit to work in the hearts of the members. It would rather tell the unsuspecting members a total lie rather that practice free will giving.
You keep telling us about all the projects the church has and all the people that have to be paid by the membership. I tell you that it is past time the church cleans house. Get rid of all the layers of hierarchy that duplicate or that are not effective. Get rid of much of the printed material that is not producing results. Get rid of the schools that are not making it on their own. Stop burdening the membership and allow the Spirit to move in the church instead of using council that has been proven to be faulty.
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Don, the church tells us that tithing is not a test of fellowship. That is a farce. It is a cop out. What the church says and what it does are two different things. That is why the man was holding the money. He was brain washed by the church just as you are when you do not recognize the facts that have been presented on this forum many times.
Try holding office or working for the church if you don't return the tax they impose. Once it is known that the members or workers are not returning the 10th they are less that true Christians in their eyes. Then come the threats. I know because I have been there. I have been on both ends. It is a terrible sin what the church is doing and I hate to brake the news to you but you and anyone else that supports it are part of the scheme.
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1 Tim 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
These comments are in response to the news item I posted earlier.
The church must take on the responsibility for this family's tragedy. Sometimes we distance ourselves from the extremists. But, they have chosen fellowship with us. We must seek to visit them regularly. If they deny us entrance, then we have done what we can, perhaps.
We need to educate the members of the church regarding how to manage our obligations to God and each other. Before one day goes by without food, let the church know. <
As a pastor, I helped establish an interdenomination food bank and have delivered food to people's homes. I have helped one of our church members link up with government social services because they had been brought to a terrible need. The local church was financially unable to help this family, their need was so pressing.
I see this problem as partially a problem of good pastoring.
Of course, we don't know what this family's relationship was with the church.
Also, the church needs to teach this lesson in the light of 1 Timothy 5:8.
When it teaches tithing, the church needs to teach it as a "sensible" way to finance the Gospel.
We need to remember that some people will rob God by denying their family's needs so they can keep from robbing God by not supporting the Gospel financially. This story is a tragic example of Matthew 23:23 on several levels.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
The tithe for $100 000 has been compared to the tithe of $10 000, and the impact the tithe amounts have on the two family budgets.
The impact is obviously more noticeable with the poor. I knew one woman who made so little that she relied on miracles to survive. Yet, she joyfully returned the tithe. She felt the Lord's blessings.
I have not heard anyone who practices tithing say that they wish they didn't. With the practice of tithing comes promises of blessings; the very windows of heaven opened. The church teaches that it is the storehouse. But, the promise can be realized in many ways. Returning 10%, or some other budgeted amount, to a worthy cause will bring the promised blessing, as well.
The church tells us that tithing is not a test of fellowship. That is a farce.
I will not second guess your reported experience. The church does not behave properly all the time. But, the Church Manual clearly states the principle. As a pastor I followed that principle. As a teacher, I teach it.
I don't believe that tithing should be made an issue with anyone except church leaders, on all levels. Fortunately, in the SDA church, the leadership are not counted among the very poor. Perhaps lower middle class can best describe pastor and teacher's salaries, currently. </blockquote>
Message edited by Don on October 21, 2009
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Bob Sands,
To your last two posts I cannot say enough Amens. You have hit the nail so firmly on the head that there is nothing else to say regarding the way tithing is pushed down the throats of the members of the SDA movement. It is because of the chaff that is still taught in Adventism that all of the good kernel that the Adventism proclaims is spoken evil of.
Adventism is just about the only major Protestant denomination which still fully embraces the literal Genesis account of creation approximately 6,000 years ago. The creation scientists at the Institute for Creation Science are not SDA but they are the foremost defenders of a scientific model which shows the plausibility of young universe creationism which Adventism defends as well.
Once individuals or movements begin to compromise on the Genesis account of the creation, the plan of salvation is compromised as well. If there was no original sinless world into which sin and death entered through the fall of the original Adam, then the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ becomes merely a morality play with a tragic hero. He is no longer the promised seed of the woman who crushes the head of Satan through the atoning blood of Calvary. It is this promised seed, which is the basis for all of the drama of the biblical account of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the redemptive history of the nation of Israel and on down through the ages to the final announcement of Gabriel to Mary that the kingdom of God was at hand in the person of Jesus Christ, the promised seed of the woman.
For a while in 1980 I gave up on the SDA movement and the seventh day Sabbath and embraced for a couple of years the same teaching that you now embrace regarding the Sabbath. I attended just about every Protestant denomination that there is on the scene today. After doing this for about 2 years I realized that as immature as the SDA movement is, it is still light years ahead of these Protestant churches. The Lutheran, Calvinist, and Wesleyan denominations are absolutely dead theologically, spiritually, and dynamically. They have for the most part abandoned the history of the bible as a true record of the creation and fall and redemption of the world.
When I began to attend the Adventist church again I realized more than ever that the Lord really is in this movement. I believe that He will purge it of all of its dross which the pioneers were too blind to see, but the pillars of Adventism will prevail---the commandments of God including the Sabbath and the testimony of Jesus Christ the everlasting gospel.
Bill D.
Bill Diehl, editor
Present Truth Magazine Online
www.PresentTruthMag.org
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Bill D.,
I believe that EGW needs to be declared devotional, and used as such. I went to a funeral of a Pastor's wife, and more EGW was quoted than scripture. I had not been in an SDA church in a long time and did not rush back or to another one. It gave me a very uncomfortable feeling knowing there are those with computer programs word searching EGW's writings, while I am searching the scriptures more than I ever have, mainly using
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Bill said:
The Lutheran, Calvinist, and Wesleyan denominations are absolutely dead theologically, spiritually, and dynamically. They have for the most part abandoned the history of the bible as a true record of the creation and fall and redemption of the world.
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Who or what has been brainwashing you Bill? I fully realize there are pockets of groups that do not embrace the creation event. That is true with the Adventist church also. It is strange that in your quest to find a Bible believing church you were not able to find one. I have to wonder about how much you severed yourself from the Adventists in the first place.
I wondered why you didn't respond directly to my post concerning Col 2. Now I better understand.
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Bob Sh., I don't understand the harshness of your post. I thought that I had dealt with Colossians 2 and 2Corinthians 3 but maybe I left something out that you feel should have been dealt with more thoroughly?
Also I assure you that I did in fact examine the mainstream denominations and movements and found that, in my opinion, they were seriously lacking in doctrine and practice even more so than the weaknesses of the SDA movement.
If you would like me to deal more in detail with what I found in those other groups I would be willing to discuss my observations which are naturally subjective opinion in some areas but in other areas such as doctrine more objective and readily able to be analysed systematically.
Bill D.
Bill Diehl, editor
Present Truth Magazine Online
www.PresentTruthMag.org
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Bill, no comment about my thread Sabbath introduced at Sinai. A lot of interaction from other posters, also.
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As far as Evangelical Christians, they talk about freedom from the law, which we never are, but preach and discipline with a list of does and don'ts.
One Lutheran church I visited the priest/pastor at the end of the service said, "Don't even try to be good this week, it is done for you. Sort of presumptious, don't you think?
Adventism's inclusion of Sanctification as a major discussion is an important contribution to Christendom, IMO.
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Setting aside for the time being the matter of soteriology, the first thing that could be discussed might be the matter of zeal or what I would term as the apocalyptic spirit of the various movements and denominations which are in the current religious scene.
To put it bluntly, most of the mainline denominations are absolutely near a comatose state and completely lacking in eagerness to see the gospel go to the ends of the earth in joyous anticipation of the coming of the Lord. This is what I mean when I speak of the apocalyptic spirit. These old line groups are so ingrained with the teaching of the immortal soul that their major focus is not the glorious second "coming the Lord" to raise the dead and end this nightmare of suffering and sin, but rather the focus is on their going <i>to</i> the Lord at their death. This teaching has a tremendously deleterious effect upon the whole psyche of these groups. They are not sitting as it were on the edge of their seats in eager anticipation of the soon coming King and the end of Satans kingdom. In order to make up for this lack of apocalyptic spirit the old line denominations have taken on what could be called the social gospel. This is especially true of the Methodists, the United Church of Christ, the American Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church, the United Presbyterian Church and others in the so-called main stream. This certainly is true of the Congregational Church in which I was raised.
There are some movements however which do in fact have much more focus on biblical apocalyptics. Those would include the secrete rapture groups such as the Plymouth Brethren, most of the free will Baptists, the Pentecostal/charismatic groups, and others who imagine that the modern State of Israel which has emerged since 1948 is a sign of the soon coming rapture and the seven year tribulation period.
Then there are the movements which are considered by the establishment churches to be the cultic groups. Such as the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the group which is closest to our history, the Seventh-day Adventist movement.
For me, after examining the doctrines and the social dynamics of all of these groups, I would rather cast my lot with the SDA movement. Again, I would refer you to my post in the other topical thread in this forum where I discuss briefly the assets and liabilities of the SDA movement and reach the conclusion that even with all of its warts and bruises, the SDA movement is where I personally choose to cast my lot. I am open to discussion of any can of worms; which I have just opened in order to take a closer look at the doctrines and dynamics of these various groups as well as Seventh-day Adventism.
Bill D.
Bill Diehl, editor
Present Truth Magazine Online
www.PresentTruthMag.org
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The Presbyterian Church of America certainly is Mission oriented, my daughter went on one of their trips to Peru. The particular church is debt free and puts a tremendous amount in Missions and sponsoring Missionaries.
That's not what I hold against them, it is Calvinism, sometime hyperCalvinism. Also Predestination. There attempt to hold on to the 10 Commandments as in the Westminister Confession, is a bit of a joke when they declare in that document, with no Biblical authority, Sunday as the new Christian Sabbath.
The day is not the issue but it is one of them for them, based on 1650 AD thinking of the Divines.
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Bob Sands,
Your quote from the Lutheran minister is astonding and shocking!!! Talk about confusing justification with sanctification!!! This kind of talk is exactly what Paul was accused of teaching and which in fact Paul totally denied teaching!! Christ's finished work on the cross is a finished work of grace and the justified repentant sinner cannot add anything to this for his acceptance before God, but the work of sanctification is still a battle and a march and a constant conflict with the flesh or carnal nature which we all still wrestle with as Paul tells us in Romans 7.
Anyone who is not engaged in this struggle is NOT a Christian and is worshipping a false Christ of his own immagination. I can't express it in words how shocked that anyone claiming to be a minister of the gospel would make such an ourrageous statement. Can you imagine the fruit that such a teaching will bear?? If we are not resisting the devil then we are walking with him and doing his bidding.
Bill D.
Bill Diehl, editor
Present Truth Magazine Online
www.PresentTruthMag.org
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Adventism's inclusion of Sanctification as a major discussion is an important contribution to Christendom, IMO.
Shouldn't we look back to the times of John Wesley for the identification of Sanctification as a major doctrine for Christian thinking?
Adventists have forwarded the concept. That is noteworthy.
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I was suggesting SDA's unique combination. If not let's all go be Methodists.
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I guess I am not understanding what Don and Bob are saying in your last posts. Could you gentlemen please expand on you statements with more specifics?
Bill D.
Bill Diehl, editor
Present Truth Magazine Online
www.PresentTruthMag.org
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If we go back and examine the interest in Sanctification as a Christian community interest, we find such stirring as a result of John Wesleys ministry.
Certainly Adventists have carried the interest further and have parsed the debate in what seem unique ways.
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Bill, I may have misread what you were trying to contribute, but what I understood was your trying to parallel Col 2:16-17 to Grace. I was trying to connect Jesus own words in Matt 5 to explain Col 2. He said at some point the law old covenant would be fulfilled. Someplace between Jesus proclamation and Paul's exhortation in Col it was fulfilled. I was a bit frustrated reading your supposed answer. I apologize for my harshness and would like for you to re-examine your answer if you are interested. You did ask in a post for comments on Col. 2.
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