A New Word For ...

don · 06-30-09 6:31 am

A New Word For ... Recently, the word 'pogrom' was presented as a new word by one person and another stated that they had known it for some time. At the time, I recalled the time when I had first learned of it. The discovery of new words is a pleasant activity; kind of like putting a new bird on one's life list. This thread intends to encourage the identification of new words; at least new to the poster; either currently new or new at some point in one's experience. .

don · 06-30-09 7:02 am

Hapax, or Biblical Hapax I first read of this word while perusing a Google Book: The Pastoral Epistles By George William Knight while investigating Paul's admonition to Timothy to drink a little wine for <a href="http://tinyurl.com/mc66am" target="_blank">his stomach's sake</a>. Dictionary dot com does not have the word. However, they do refer to Reference dot com for the phrase, <a href="http://www.reference.com/search?q=Happax" target="_blank">Hapax legomenon</a> <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:A hapax legomenon (or ) (pl. hapax legomena, though sometimes called hapaxes for short) is a word which occurs only once in the written record of a language, in the works of an author, or in a single text. They often prove important for attributing authorship of a work; for example, each of Shakespeare's plays contains a similar percentage of hapax legomena not found elsewhere in his work, something that would be difficult for a forger to duplicate. They also create difficulties in translation and decipherment, since inferring meaning from context becomes less certain with fewer examples. For example, many of the remaining undeciphered Mayan glyphs are hapax legomena, and Biblical hapax legomena play a large role in disputes over Bible translation... Some examples of hapax legomena in a given language or body of work are: <ul><li>The Book of Isaiah 34:14, describing the desolation of Edom, is the only occurrence of Lilith in the Hebrew Bible. <LI>Honorificabilitudinitatibus is a hapax legomenon of Shakespeare's works. <LI>Nortelrye, a word for "education", occurs exactly once in Chaucer. <LI>slæpwerigne occurs exactly once in the Old English corpus, in the Exeter Book. There is debate over whether it means "weary with sleep" or "weary for sleep." <LI>Autoguos, an ancient Greek word for a sort of plough, is found once (and exclusively) in Hesiod, the precise meaning remaining obscure. <LI>Panaorios, ancient Greek for "very untimely", is one of many hapax legomena of the Iliad. <LI>Flother, a synonym for snowflake, is a hapax legomenon of written English pre-1900, found in a manuscript from around 1275. <LI>Gvina is a hapax legomenon of Biblical Hebrew, found in Job 10:10. The word has been extremely common in Hebrew since its appearance in the Bible. There are more examples, like the word Hashmal that appears only in Ezekiel 1:4. Today it is used to refer to electricity. <LI>[wood] is mentioned once in the Bible, in the instruction to make Noah's ark "of gopher wood." Because of the single appearance, the literal meaning is lost. Gopher is simply a transliteration, although scholars today tentatively suggest that the wood intended is cypress. <LI>ramogna is mentioned only once in Italian literature, precisely in Dante's Divina Commedia (Purgatory XI, 25). <LI>The Greek text of 1 Peter contains a total of 1,675 words and a vocabulary of 547 terms, sixty-one of which occur nowhere else in the NT (Anchor Bible Dictionary (Vol 5, O-SH, pp. 272).</li></ul> <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

elaine · 06-30-09 3:32 pm

More interesting might be the new words annually introduced into the public vocabulary. Also, slang words that, given sufficient time, become incorporated into the dictionary. Such words as "Google" "Tweeter" and many words that have developed since the computer age and unknown to our parents. Which reminds me that I need a new dictionary that contains the hundreds of new words added yearly. Shakespeare is said to have used more words and added them to the lexicon than any previous writer. No one as yet has mastered his use of the English language, outdated thought it is. He also was a master of human emotions and his plays are a joy to see. I've seen several in real life: "The Merchant of Venice" and more on video or TV: "Othello," "Richard III," "The Taming of the Shrew," "As You Like It," and others I can't remember. Also, I'm able to get Turner Classic Movies (TCM) and many old (some to the 30s") movies worth watching with Greta Garbo, Kathryn Hepburn, and the great actors of the past. I don't care for the violent ones but those that really develop characters are very interesting. What are some of the old movies that others here have enjoyed?

don · 06-30-09 4:56 pm

‘Millionth English word’ declared<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:BBC NEWS | Programmes | World News America | ‘Millionth English word’ declared “As expected, English crossed the 1,000,000 word threshold on June 10, 2009 at 10:22 am GMT. However, some 400 years after the death of the Bard, the words and phrases were coined far from Stratford-Upon-Avon, emerging instead from Silicon Valley, India, China, and Poland, as well as Australia, Canada, the US and the UK,” said Paul JJ Payack, president and chief word analyst of the Global Language Monitor. “English has become a universal means of communication; never before have so many people been able to communicate so easily with so many others.” The English language is now being studied by hundreds of millions around the globe for entertainment, commercial or scientific purposes. In 1960 there were some 250 million English speakers, mostly in former colonies and the Commonwealth countries. The future of English as a major language was very much in doubt. Today, some 1.53 billion people now speak English as a primary, auxiliary, or business language, with some 250 million acquiring the language in China alone. These are the fifteen finalists for the one millionth English word, all of which have met the criteria of a minimum of 25,000 citations with the necessary breadth of geographic distribution, and depth of citations.<ul><li>1,000,000: Web 2.0 – The next generation of web products and services, coming soon to a browser near you. <LI>999,999: Jai Ho! – The Hindi phrase signifying the joy of victory, used as an exclamation, sometimes rendered as “It is accomplished”. Achieved English-language popularity through the multiple Academy Award Winning film, “Slumdog Millionaire”. <LI>999,998: N00b — From the Gamer Community, a neophyte in playing a particular game; used as a disparaging term. <LI>999,997: Slumdog – a formerly disparaging, now often endearing, comment upon those residing in the slums of India. <LI>999,996: Cloud Computing – The ‘cloud’ has been technical jargon for the Internet for many years. It is now passing into more general usage. <LI>999,995: Carbon Neutral — One of the many phrases relating to the effort to stem Climate Change. <LI>999,994: Slow Food — Food other than the fast-food variety hopefully produced locally (locavores). <LI>999,993: Octomom – The media phenomenon relating to the travails of the mother of the octuplets. <LI>999,992: Greenwashing – Re-branding an old, often inferior, product as environmentally friendly. <LI>999,991: Sexting – Sending email (or text messages) with sexual content. <LI>999,990: Shovel Ready – Projects are ready to begin immediately upon the release of federal stimulus funds. <LI>999,989: Defriend – Social networking terminology for cutting the connection with a formal friend. <LI>999,988: Chengguan – Urban management officers, a cross between mayors, sheriff, and city managers. <LI>999,987: Recessionista – Fashion conscious who use the global economic restructuring to their financial benefit. <LI>999,986: Zombie Banks – Banks that would be dead if not for government intervention and cash infusion.</li></ul>In addition, the 1,000,001st word is Financial Tsunami – The global financial restructuring that seemingly swept out of nowhere, wiping out trillions of dollars of assets, in a matter of months Each word was analyzed to determine which depth (number of citations) and breadth (geographic extent of word usage), as well as number of appearances in the global print and electronic media, the Internet, the blogosphere, and social media (such as Twitter and YouTube). The Word with the highest PQI score was deemed the 1,000,000th English language word. The Predictive Quantities Indicator (PQI) is used to track and analyze word usage. Global Language Monitor has been tracking English word creation since 2003. Once it identifies new words (or neologisms) it measures their extent and depth of usage with its PQI technology. <a href="http://www.languagemonitor.com/" target="_blank">http://www.languagemonitor.com/</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

don · 07-26-09 6:42 pm

Gerrymander <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1673.jpg" alt=""> Defined: "2 : to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group <gerrymander> " <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:"An official statement of the returns of voters for senators give[s] twenty nine friends of peace, and eleven gerrymanders." So reported the May 12, 1813, edition of the Massachusetts Spy. A gerrymander sounds like a strange political beast, which it is, considered from a historical perspective. This beast was named by combining the word salamander, "a small lizardlike amphibian," with the last name of Elbridge Gerry, a former governor of Massachusetts—a state noted for its varied, often colorful political fauna. Gerry (whose name, incidentally, was pronounced with a hard g, though gerrymander is now commonly pronounced with a soft g) was immortalized in this word because an election district created by members of his party in 1812 looked like a salamander. According to one version of gerrymander's coining, the shape of the district attracted the eye of the painter Gilbert Stuart, who noticed it on a map in a newspaper editor's office. Stuart decorated the outline of the district with a head, wings, and claws and then said to the editor, "That will do for a salamander!" "Gerrymander!" came the reply. The word is first recorded in April 1812 in reference to the creature or its caricature, but it soon came to mean not only "the action of shaping a district to gain political advantage" but also "any representative elected from such a district by that method." Within the same year gerrymander was also recorded as a verb. <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gerrymander" target=_top>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gerrymander</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> I became interested in this word while reading a court case dealing with photos for licenses. <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:The First Amendment protects against governmental hostility to religious conduct whether it is overt or covert. (Lukumi, supra,508 U.S. at p. 534.) Accordingly, we “‘must survey meticulously the circumstances of governmental categories to eliminate, as it were, religious gerrymanders.’ [Citation.]” (Ibid.) To do so, we assess whether the design of even facially neutral legislation amounts to “an impermissible attempt to target petitioners and their religious practices.” (Id. at p. 535.) Thus, in Lukumi, the high court found that through “careful drafting,” a set of ordinances dealing generally with ritual slaughter of animals ensured that only the practices of a single religious faith would be outlawed. (Id. at p. 536.) For instance, as drafted and interpreted, the ordinances not only provided an exemption for kosher slaughter, but excluded hunting, slaughter of animals for food, eradication of insects and pests, and animal euthanasia from the general proscription against killing animals. (Id. at pp. 535-537.) In effect, it was the religious motivation for specific conduct—killing animals—that was singled out for discriminatory treatment. (Id. at pp. 537-538.) In JACK PETER VALOV v. DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES (Los Angeles), 2005 <a href="http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/states/Cal.Ct.App/B175665.PDF" target=_top>http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/states/Cal.Ct.App/B175665.PDF</a> <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>If a law is made to intentionally, yet obliquely, target a specific religious individual or group, that is gerrymandering. .

elaine · 07-26-09 7:33 pm

It's an old, and much used, much blamed political practice.

elaine · 07-26-09 7:36 pm

The finest and easiest way to increase vocabulary is to read a lot; preferably in such magazines as Harper's, Atlantic Monthly where excellent writers contribute. Also, some of the best op-ed writers (George F. Will, particularly), have huge vocabularies and use new words all the time.

don · 07-26-09 11:03 pm

Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:The Church distinguishes clearly between dulia, or "the homage of veneration," and latria, which signifies "the worship of adoration." Veneration is paid to the Saints; a higher form of it, called hyperdulia, is given to the Virgin Mary; but adoration is given only to God. Any attempt to give adoration to a creature would certainly be idolatrous - but the Catholic Church has never given it. She adores God and God alone. <a href="http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/4dgmMary.htm" target="_blank">http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Had dad/4dgmMary.htm</a> <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

don · 08-14-09 8:53 pm

Perfunctory I have heard this word before but when I ran across it today, its meaning was unclear to me. Here's a definition:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:1. performed merely as a routine duty; hasty and superficial: perfunctory courtesy. 2. lacking interest, care, or enthusiasm; indifferent or apathetic: In his lectures he reveals himself to be merely a perfunctory speaker. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Here is what I was reading when I ran across this word; I rather like the ideas here:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Giving Honor Shalom Bayit (Family Peace) is more likely to be realized if each of the marriage partners lives up to the letter and spirit of their obligation to the other. To honor one's mate is obligatory. It is achieved through tangible manifestations of honor. The true purpose of the obligation is best achieved through integrating into one's being the feeling that one's partner is deserving and should always be honored, in all situations and circumstances. Respect and dignity, appreciation and gentleness, are expressions that should be forthcoming without compromise. The husband is duty bound to honor his wife. Honor is more than the absence of disrespect; it is the according of salient, deferring respect to the one who is the main cause for true blessing residing in the home. The husband, by working out in his own mind the essentiality of his wife in his own life, will make it more likely that the honor imperative remains ever-present in his thinking process, never allowing for a laxity which not only may presage a regressive pattern but also reflects that the honor he bestows is perfunctory and conditional, when in fact the honor should be authentic and constant. (13) The husband who honors his wife appreciates and values her dignity as a person. He respects what she considers vital to her own self, and to her sense of self-worth, and cooperates fully with her in attaining and maintaining self-worth. He does not take his wife's contributions to the marriage and the home as a matter of course, to be expected. Instead, he continually voices his appreciation for all things, large and small. (14) The husband who honors his wife talks in gentle tones and is exceedingly careful not to embarrass his wife or cause her to feel as if she is not keeping up her part of the marital responsibilities. The honoring husband conveys his respect, but he does not employ the formal language of a royal palace. His is more the language of an intimate. (15) The honoring husband will take great care not to make excessive or unrealistic demands of his wife. In fact, he will not demand; he will gently ask. He will be sure that he is asking at a proper time, and that what he asks for is not a triviality which betrays disrespect or something excessive which betrays insensitivity. If, for whatever reason, the trivial or the excessive is requested, it should be preceded with an appropriate preamble assuring the wife that no disrespect or insensitivity is involved, and that she is greatly appreciated no matter. The husband will use this approach not as an effective technique to get what he wants, but because this is the way that his wife should be acknowledged. (16) The husband who honors his wife, upon seeing that she is too busy to attend to him as she normally does, will not sit and sulk. He will get up and take care of matters on his own. With this and other components of honor due to the wife, the wife should not use the husband's obligations as a device to demand from him, or to refuse to do her part. The obligation to honor is his responsibility, not her weapon. <a href="http://www.innernet.org.il/article.php?aid=379" target=_top>http://www.innernet.org.il/article.php?aid=379</a> by R. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuven_Bulka" target="_blank">Reuven Bulka</a> <a href="http://www.minghui.org/mh/article_images/2006-9-27-bulka-01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1750.jpg" alt=""></a> From "<a href="http://tinyurl.com/qou2hx" target="_blank">Jewish Marriage: A Halakhic Ethic</a>," Ktav Publishing House - <a href="http://www.ktav.com" target=_top>www.ktav.com</a> <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> (Message edited by Don on August 14, 2009)

bob_2 · 08-15-09 1:29 pm

man boobs referring to a guy with some extra flesh in the chest

bob_2 · 08-15-09 1:37 pm

This addition to your vocabulary appears to have been around butnot used very often, at least not as often as the act it describes!!<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> omphaloskepsis contemplation of one's navel

don · 10-10-09 7:43 pm

Cladogram As I have been reading about Ardipithecus ramidus, I have run across this term. Interestingly, paleoanthropologists don't always agree with each other on their cladograms. A cladogram is a graphic tool to show one's hypotheses regarding evolutionary ancestry. n. A branching, treelike diagram in which the endpoints of the branches represent specific species of organisms. It is used to illustrate phylogenetic relationships and show points at which various species have diverged from common ancestral forms. <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cladogram" target=_top>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cladogram</a> From: <a href="http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/australopithecus_garhi.htm" target="_blank">Australopithecus garhi: A New Species of Early Hominid from Ethiopia</a> (1999) Berhane Asfaw, Tim White, Owen Lovejoy, Bruce Latimer, Scott Simpson, Gen Suwa (Most of the scientists listed here have also been in the news lately regarding Ardi.) <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1987.jpg" alt=""> (A) A cladogram depicting relationships among widely recognized early hominid taxa, including the new species A. garhi. Note that an additional clade is required when two contemporary forms of early Homo are recognized. A variety of possible cladograms have been generated from the data available in the hominid fossil record, but none of these satisfactorily resolve the polychotomy illustrated here (11). This cladogram adds A. garhi to the unresolved node. (B) The chronological relationships of early hominid taxa. Age is given in Ma. (C to F) Alternative phylogenies depicting possible relationships among early hominid taxa. Note that these alternatives do not exhaust the possibilities and that not all are entirely consistent with the cladogram. It is not presently possible to choose among these alternatives. <a href="http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/australopithecus_garhi.htm" target=_top>http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/australopithecus_garhi.htm</a> ____________________________________ I first ran across the term, cladogram, as it was used by Elaine Kennedy in her 2006 essay, <a href="http://dialogue.adventist.org/articles/08_1_kennedy_e.htm" target="_blank">The search for Adam’s ancestors</a> She introduced a cladogram and then provided two other trees further developed than a simple cladogram: <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1988.jpg" alt=""> <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1989.jpg" alt=""> <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/22/1990.jpg" alt=""><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Hominid relationships. Phylogeneticists use cladistic methods (cladograms) to describe relationships among organisms. Cladograms are diagrams that arrange organisms in groups having shared characters, describing organisms in terms of sister rather than ancestral relationships, in a hierarchical form. In developing cla-dograms, phylogeneticists make three basic assumptions: (1) The features or characters that make up the database can be arranged in a hierarchical structure; (2) the data or characters selected accurately represent the organisms; and (3) there has been little or no loss of defining characters.9 A cladogram describing possible relationships among hominids is shown in Figure 1. Some characters used to develop the cladogram appear in species in a different order than the majority of the characters defining the cladogram. Phylogeneticists select the cladogram with the least number of out-of-order characters to develop “best fit” diagrams; consequently, there is some disagreement over which characters best describe the organisms and how they should be arranged in the hierarchy. After using cladistics to identify hierarchical relationships, numerous researchers incorporate this information into hypotheses and develop phylogenetic schemes depicting ancestral relationships for hominids. By 1993, at least six major phylogenetic schemes had been proposed for the hominids. Since the discovery of A. ramidus, a seventh scheme has been proposed. Much of the shuffling of species in these diagrams represents disputes over the validity of attributing to human evolution the various traits found in the skulls and teeth of the specimens. <a href="http://dialogue.adventist.org/articles/08_1_kennedy_e.htm" target=_top>http://dialogue.adventist.org/articles/08_1_kennedy_e.htm</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> .

don · 11-06-09 8:56 am

Pace as a Preposition Here is a text using the word:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:On his (Emperor Yao) becoming a "guest on high," Shun was chosen to succeed him, and it was during the reign of this monarch that a great flood, which was considered by the early Jesuit missionaries to have been the flood of Noah, devastated large districts of the Chinese states. Pace the missionaries, this catastrophe was probably nothing more than one of those outbreaks of the Yellow River which periodically lay waste the country lying on its banks. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Source:<blockquote>CHINA (1907), page 6. BY SIR ROBERT K. DOUGLAS (1838-1913) PROFESSOR OF CHINESE. KING'S COLLEGE, LONDON <a href="http://www.archive.org/stream/china00jenkgoog/china00jenkgoog_djvu.txt" target=_top>http://www.archive.org/stream/china00jenkgoog/chin a00jenkgoog_djvu.txt</a> </blockquote>"Pace the Missionaries" seems to be an odd statement until the meaning is known; then it is a very useful word in a debate. Note a definition for the word used in the quote:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Pronunciation [pey-see, pah-chey; Lat. pah-ke] preposition -- with all due respect to; with the permission of: I do not, pace my rival, hold with the ideas of the reactionists. <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pace" target=_top>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pace</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

elaine · 11-06-09 12:51 pm

Many cultures tell the story of a great flood. Whether they all were about the same event, the reasons given are quite different. The Bible story is only one of many that predated the biblical one. Check Google for "flood stories."

elaine · 11-06-09 12:54 pm

From a Google search for flood stories: "China The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world."

don · 11-06-09 4:49 pm

The Chinese classic called the Hihking I know very little about the documents supporting ancient Chinese stories. Part of my goal, for myself, is to track the reliability of these and other stories. Apparently, this particular account has very little authentic backing. See: <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CG/CG202_2.html" target=_top>http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CG/CG202_2.html</a> .

elaine · 11-06-09 6:37 pm

Does the Bible flood story have authentic backing?

don · 11-06-09 7:07 pm

Does the Bible flood story have authentic backing? Of course it does. I define "authentic backing" as having a textual history dating back into antiquity. The so called Chinese Classic of Hihking does not have any textual history as far as I can tell. I am not talking about "proof" that the flood really happened. I am talking about evidence that the story exists in antiquity. .

elaine · 11-06-09 8:19 pm

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. Is the Chinese story of a flood any more authentic than all the others? Or, was it only oral history? If it was only oral, most all the stories originated in preliterate societies before being written.

don · 11-06-09 9:57 pm

Is the Chinese story of a flood any more authentic than all the others? My contention is not with the various ancient stories of the flood. I have looked for the so-called Hihking classic and have concluded that it doesn't exist; at least not any more, if it ever did. Or, was it only oral history? If it was only oral, most all the stories originated in preliterate societies before being written. The only record we have of oral history is in written history. The extent of oral traditions are hard to determine. My interest is in the written accounts; not just of the flood, but of all things ancient. On this thread, <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=22&post=7768#POST7768" target="_blank">I presented the word 'pace' [pay-see]</a>. The Jesuit missionaries identified a flood story in China with the Biblical story of Noah. The author, Douglas, wrote that he respectfully disagreed; i.e. Pace the missionaries. On the atomorrow forum we often disagree. Pace Elaine, John, Bill, Bob etc. but I ... I rather like the manners built into the word, 'pace'. .

elaine · 11-07-09 1:43 am

The Flood - Universal Tradition According to the Bible, every human to have lived since the Flood is a direct descendent of Noah's small remnant. It logically follows that despite the relative isolation of the various cultures that have thrived since the Flood, because every culture descended directly from the flood's survivors, traditions of this traumatic event ought to be abundant and universal, having been passed down generation to generation. Indeed, Flood traditions are both abundant and universal. Literally hundreds of Flood traditions have been preserved throughout the world, abounding in Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and the Americas. Collectively, these Flood traditions serve to corroborate the Bible's Genesis Flood account. These surviving Flood traditions include two of the oldest known stories to have survived the ravishment of time's passage: China's "Hihking Classic" and Babylon's "Epic of Gilgamesh." These Flood traditions are remarkably consistent, considering the relative isolation of the cultures, the length of time since the Flood, and the human tendency to embellish and exaggerate stories over time.

don · 11-07-09 5:07 am

These surviving Flood traditions include two of the oldest known stories to have survived the ravishment of time's passage: China's "Hihking Classic" and Babylon's "Epic of Gilgamesh." I am aware of China's flood stories, at least to know that they exist. But, scholars (historians, anthropologists, etc.) don't call it the "Hihking Classic". In comparison, the "Epic of Gilgamesh," is well-known, translated, studied, etc. Google "Hihking Classic" and less than 50 sites are returned. By comparison Google "Epic of Gilgamesh" and there are over 250 000 returns. These Flood traditions are remarkably consistent Perhaps. But first we need to find them, at least the Hihking Classic. <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> .

elaine · 11-07-09 3:45 pm

Why must we find that particular one? Is it missing? If so, how can we know there actually is one? Is it like searching for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Does it hold some important answers?

don · 11-07-09 4:33 pm

Why must we find that particular one? Not at all. I think the attempt would be futile. Elaine, look over <a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=22&post=7773#POST7773" target="_blank">your first post in this discussion</a>. It presented this:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>I searched for the Hihking Classic and could not find it. I did note how that the posters who referred to the Hihking Classic all seemed to be copying from the same source. It seems to be an Urban Legend, or something similar. From what I can tell, the people who refer to the Hihking Classic reveal themselves as non-scholars. It is not that big of a deal, I suppose. But my task, for myself, is to track down the real myths (oxymoron?). As an aside: I believe the people who use the "Hihking Classic" story reveal how an internet "fact" can take on a life of its own. .

elaine · 11-07-09 7:25 pm

Many tales from the ancient past likely also became "urban rumors." We have no way of clarifying, do we? Could it be that all contain some truth? Only that there was a story called that, but how is that different from the Atrahasis, Gilgamesh, or the Bible story? Only because the last three have been written down? But, they all began with oral stories, and no way to clarify how truthful all the details. Only because one is accepted above the others? Yet, they all have impossible events described, don't they? Why are "supernatural" events described in the Bible considered "true" and all other similar stories are false? Is it only because one makes a choice of which to accept and which ones to reject based on our previous indoctrination?

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