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#1 09-24-09 12:45 am

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

La Sierra in the News

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>LSU Controversy Receives Secular Media Attention September 1, 2009, an article titled “Creating Controversy” by Jack Stripling surfaced at InsideHigherEd.com, covering the controversy surrounding La Sierra University. As a result of this article, EducateTruth.com received a spike in unique hits Sept. 1 — over 7,000 — five times the daily average for August. <BR> <BR>Widespread interest in this issue is the natural result of a defiant Biology department and the institutional hand that protects it from reproof or consequences. LSU continues to sympathize with these professors who are openly undermining church doctrine and Biblical creation. These professors are allowed employment at Seventh-day Adventist institutions. It would have been better for LSU to responsibly take action and address the issue, as opposed to denying the existence of the problem and attempting to sweep it under the rug. <BR> <BR>Stripling’s interview with LSU biology professor of 38 years Gary Bradley was the most convincing piece of evidence supporting the allegations evolution was being taught as the preferred scientific worldview at LSU. Bradley unabashedly admitted it, saying when evolution debates have emerged before, his response was to “dive under the desk and wait for them to blow over.” In other words, this controversy isn’t new to LSU. It has come and gone, while evolution-promoting professors have stayed to continue turning out faithless or confused graduates. This matches the testimony of many impacted students and parents who have been ignored after attempting to have this issue addressed by LSU. <BR> <BR>Bradley said he is backed by President Wisbey, and has felt no pressure to change anything about his course, according to Stripling’s article. If Bradley is telling the truth, President Wisbey is supporting a professor who does not believe in a six-day creation, but teaches to the contrary, refusing to “dismantle” evolution in his class, and considers those who believe in creation the “lunatic fringe.” He said, “They do not represent the majority position in the Church, and yes I’m skeptical of that.” <BR> <BR>Stripling wrote: “Bradley says he won’t undercut decades of peer reviewed scientific research in the interest of religious consistency.” <BR> <BR>This contradicts LSU’s claim that students “will be introduced to Seventh-day Adventist understandings of Creation, centered in the Genesis account, which reveals the Creator as a personal and loving God.” According to Stripling’s article, LSU will be adding a seminar for biology students “in which theologians and scientists will discuss the intersections of faith and science.” No word yet on this becoming part of the core curriculum for biology students, or whether it will be headed by creationists or more defiant evolutionists. While this is a nice step on LSU’s part, it still does not address the problem. <BR> <BR>The same day Stripling’s article was posted, Executive Director of University Relations for LSU Larry Becker issued a diplomatic statement, attempting to soften what Bradley had boldly stated: <BR> <BR>Some of Dr. Bradley’s statements as reported in the article posted September 1 do not reflect the views of the university. They are his views alone …. The university is saddened that some of his statements, as reported in this interview do not reflect the university’s commitment to help our students navigate the important issues of faith and science in the context of Seventh-day Adventist higher education. <BR> <BR>This no doubt includes Bradley’s use of an expletive during the interview. <BR> <BR>The Seventh-day Adventist Church manual says on page 190: <BR> <BR>Therefore, although all members have equal rights within the church, no individual member or group of members should start a movement or form an organization or seek to encourage a following for the attainment of any objective or for the teaching of any doctrine or message not in harmony with the fundamental religious objectives and teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Such a course would result in the fostering of a factional and divisive spirit, in the fragmenting of the effort and witness of the church, and thus in hindering it in the discharge of its obligations to its Head and to the world. <BR> <BR>The first reason listed in the church manual which would subject a member to discipline is “Denial of faith in the fundamentals of the gospel and in the cardinal doctrines of the church or teaching doctrines contrary to the same” &#40;p. 195&#41;. <BR> <BR>There is no question LSU is at odds with the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s position on creation by supporting professors who believe and teach contrary to church doctrine. Making claims of conformity to the church’s position is of no effect if LSU continues to allow professors to promote evolution as the preferred scientific worldview over Biblical creation. <BR> <BR>Some have criticized the manner in which EducateTruth.com is handling the situation. They quote Matthew 18, but fail to realize for decades there have been many private attempts by parents and students to address the issue, but to no avail. EducateTruth.com is a direct response to LSU’s lack of response. <BR> <BR>The church manual also says: <BR> <BR>When differences arise in or between organizations and institutions, appeal to the next higher organization is proper until it reaches the General Conference in session, or the Executive Committee at the Annual Council. <BR> <BR>A Seventh-day Adventist university promoting evolution is no private matter. It is publicly contrary to the Bible, church doctrine and Spirit of Prophecy. This issue has been kept hushed for decades, and thus evolution has been the fall of many vulnerable minds to worldly doctrine. <BR> <BR>In a letter dated August 27 and addressed to me, Dr. Wisbey said: <BR> <BR>The Board will set aside a portion of the November 12, 2009 Board meeting for an evaluation of the matter in executive session. The participants will be limited to Board members and such individuals as the Board chooses to invite to provide background information to educate the Board on Biology curricular matters. Written comments including your petition will be received from members of the campus community. Such materials will be provided to the Board as part of their consideration. These materials will be reviewed for their balance and objectivity. <BR> <BR>Pray for La Sierra University that the Lord will guide administration into making decisions in accordance with Biblical principles and Spirit of Prophecy enlightenment. <BR> <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/educate-truth-evolution-vs-creation-at-la-sierra-university/175cd7607ebe72029c146cf56e1e21e1" target=_top>http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/educate-truth-evol ution-vs-creation-at-la-sierra-university/175cd760 7ebe72029c146cf56e1e21e1</a>

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#2 09-24-09 1:18 am

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

This Board meeting in November should prove interesting given this appeal/recommendation/warning? to La Sierra and other Adventist Universities:  <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>... <BR> <BR>I appeal to all engaged by our church in the ministries of administration, preaching, teaching, and writing to articulate and reflect our stand as a community on Creation. We are a faith-community, and the world of faith is the world in which God&#39;s creative powers are on constant display. Sometimes the findings of science may reflect some of this, but often not. Faith is certainly not subject to findings of science. <BR> <BR>To those who teach at our colleges and universities, let me say that you have a demanding, often difficult, but sacred assignment. It is a ministry you hold in trust. It is understood that to care for your ministry responsibly you have to take your students on many a journey of findings into various disciplines of study. They need to know what they will meet in their profession and in life. As part of that exercise you will also expose them to the elements and concepts of evolution. That is understood. <BR> <BR>As your pastor, however, I appeal to you that when you take your students out on the journey, you bring them safely back home before the day is over. And their home must always be in the world of faith. You owe it to the students, you owe it to God, you owe it to their parents, you owe it to the church, and you owe it to yourself as a believer to safely guide them through difficult moments on their journey. <BR> <BR>...<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://news.adventist.org/statements/an-appeal.html" target=_top>http://news.adventist.org/statements/an-appeal.htm l</a>

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#3 09-24-09 11:23 am

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

<b><font color="0000ff">LSU continues to sympathize with these professors who are openly undermining church doctrine and Biblical creation.</font></b> <BR> <BR>Hopefully, the issues will be examined carefully, thoughtfully. <blockquote>How is Bradley undermining faith? Is he? Do we have exact quotes as to how he is doing so? <BR> <BR>From what I have read the issue focused on what sources can be cited in a scientific paper and that they should be limited to peer-reviewed sources. <BR> <BR>Does the student who seeks to uphold a young earth creationism know how to think as a scientist? <BR> <BR>Is this the issue? Or has Bradley &#34;given up the faith?&#34; Is it possible that Bradley needs to refine his own responses in the classroom? <BR> <BR>There is tremendous common ground found under the Creationist term &#34;micro-evolution&#34;. etc. etc. etc.</blockquote>It is very easy for views to get distorted.  <BR> <BR>Once, when Jerry Gladsen was facing severe scrutiny at Southern, I called him and asked him what was happening. He expressed relief that at least one person was trying to understand the real issues rather than running with the inflated distorted issues. <BR> <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>

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#4 09-24-09 12:20 pm

john8verse32
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Registered: 01-02-09
Posts: 765

Re: La Sierra in the News

if creationism is the truth, will it not be able to stand on its own? <BR> <BR>why not teach what evidence there is for both, and let the truth be found? <BR>teach creationism in Bible class where it has some sort of backing... <BR>teach evolution in science classes, where the data is located. <BR> <BR>maybe that&#39;s the problem...  LSU&#39;s profs believe the truth already has been found, and the Old Test Biblical explanation&#39;s tale seems antidiluvian and outdated by all the modern info streaming into sciences world wide web of info. <BR> <BR>for example: our understanding of volcanoes and earthquakes has progressed from superstitious belief that it was an angry god&#39;s way of killing people,  to EGW&#39;s mistaken belief in underground coal fires &#40;probably seen during a horse drawn buggy ride thru pennsy&#39;s coal fields&#41;,  to what science knows today..... <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.guideall.com/volcanoes.htm" target=_top>http://www.guideall.com/volcanoes.htm</a> <BR>where there is no mention of an angry god, or underground coal fires!!! <BR> <BR>and here....which describes how plate tectonics may play a role we once ascribed to angry gods: <BR> <BR><a href="http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Glossary/PlateTectonics/description_plate_tectonics.html" target=_top>http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Glossary/PlateTectonics/ description_plate_tectonics.html</a> <BR> <BR>and here: <BR><a href="http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/haw_formation.html" target=_top>http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/haw_formation.h tml</a> <BR> <BR>where its all tied together in the Hawaiian Islands... <BR> <BR>the plate tectonics explain the movement, resulting time vs distance computations confirm the relative radio date ages of the islands, all of which comfirm the increasing friability of the rocks of the islands as you travel NW from the Big Island. <BR> <BR>this one study alone disproves what we once believed.... and forces us to reexamine everything.   <BR> <BR>forget micro vs macro evolution.... and discover the ancient age of the earth above and learn how the meshweb of science fits it all together. <BR> <BR> <BR>the question for SDA&#39;s: <BR>how far in the past to we have to live? <BR>how much do we have to ignore the new explanations for the world around us in exchange for having &#34;faith&#34;?


If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#5 09-24-09 5:10 pm

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

<b><font color="0000ff">How far in the past to we have to live? </font></b> <BR> <BR>This question would not be asked by someone who believes that the past began with God and Creation. For the Creationist, the divine past was perfect. <IMG SRC="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-&#41;" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><b><font color="0000ff">How much do we have to ignore the new explanations for the world around us in exchange for having &#34;faith&#34;?</font></b> <BR> <BR>I agree that no sensible, obvious explanations should be ignored by SDA educators. We still don&#39;t have any quotes from Professor Bradley. The one student who ran into trouble with Bradley could easily have been someone who wanted to cut corners in his &#34;scientific&#34; thinking. It would be quite easy to blame the &#34;faith&#34; of the professor for one&#39;s inability to think scientifically. <BR> <BR>The processes of change in nature can be studied. Darwin&#39;s Finches, ice cores from the Antarctic, radiometric readings, and other such phenomena can be studied and their logical aspects examined. At an Adventist university, the educators presenting new ideas should hold to the basic tenets of Adventism, even as they examine the new raw data of natural science. <BR> <BR>If the data seems to go against the Bible, an Adventist educator should treat both natural science and the Bible with divine respect. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>

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#6 09-24-09 9:19 pm

elaine
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,391

Re: La Sierra in the News

&#34;Don&#39;t let your kid grow up to be an SDA teacher&#34; <BR>his career may always be in jeopardy, subject to angry students and parents.

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#7 09-24-09 9:49 pm

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

<b><font color="0000ff">&#34;Don&#39;t let your kid grow up to be an SDA teacher&#34;  <BR> <BR>his career may always be in jeopardy, subject to angry students and parents.</font></b> <BR> <BR>I believe that especially SDA science professors need to be clear thinkers. They will find themselves swimming against two streams: the simplistic fundamentalist stream and the mainstream of scientific belief. Mainstream evolutionary science does not take lightly those who challenge their &#34;sacred&#34; views. &#40;Some of you have watched Ben Stein&#39;s presentation, Expelled. <a href="http://www.expelledthemovie.com/" target=_top>http://www.expelledthemovie.com/</a>&#41; <BR> <BR>Dr. Brand, of LLU, discovered some interesting facts about ancient footprints and water. He said that the reason they investigated against the established view of the footprints was because of their belief in the flood. <BR> <BR>Articulate creationists who do good science will be like a thorn in the side of the mainstream of science. Evolutionary science needs a loyal opposition. Bonafide scientists who don&#39;t buy into the evolutionary mainstream can help to refine the theories that are out there. Adventist scientists, perhaps like Bradley, will also be a thorn in the side of fundamentalist students who don&#39;t know how to think carefully, scientifically. They resent the discipline of science and falsely accuse their professors in the wake of their own inability to think rationally and systematically, following the rules of scientific discipline. <BR> <BR>The Geoscience Research Institute decided that rather than debating with evolutionists, there time would be better spent doing their own scientific investigations. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>

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#8 09-25-09 6:56 am

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

Correction: <BR> <BR>In the last paragraph &#34;there&#34; should be &#34;their&#34;.

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#9 09-25-09 9:25 am

john8verse32
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Registered: 01-02-09
Posts: 765

Re: La Sierra in the News

I wonder how the GRI people, supported by SDA dollars, would explain this: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/ancientproof/impactcraters.html" target=_top>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/ancien tproof/impactcraters.html</a> <BR> <BR>impact craters prove the world is far older than the typical fundy explaination can justify. <BR> <BR>picture an impact crater, buried deep in the earth,  impacted millions of years ago,  then give it time for sea levels to change, the sea to roll in or the land to subside,  then mega yrs for limestone to form out of the giga death of tiny marine animals and their calcareous shells... then the land is later raised up to form upstate NY..... <BR> <BR>what we once believed is no longer possible to defend..... either with science, logic, or philosophy: <BR> <BR>&#40;God became so sorry He had created people that He decided to kill them all in a flood?&#41;  <BR> <BR>and SDA and any other fundy religion will continue to decline within any educated society as long as they demand continued belief in impossible to believe doctrines. <BR> <BR>within the uneducated communities or backward nations.... that&#39;s where the future of fundamentalism lies.... <BR> <BR>too bad their 10% tithe will be based against miniscule incomes....


If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#10 09-25-09 10:50 am

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

John, again these millions and billions stated as fact without statement of how the years were dated. Most dating systems of the Evolutionists are hoax ridden.  <BR> <BR>The earth, the globe, without form and void, certain could be very old, but lets first check the dating mechanisms that measured them and their assumptions. Not as gullible as I used to when I read these type of articles, anymore than dating of crocfish and how old they were when they were to have set foot on dry land.

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#11 09-25-09 11:35 am

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

One professor who worked in both worlds; the SDA church and secular science, would report the findings of secular science with the caveat, &#34;If the data is correct, then the meteorite formed this crater 230 million years ago, etc.&#34; <BR> <BR>I think there is more that dissenting scientists, i.e. scientists who don&#39;t adhere to the &#34;General Theory of Evolution&#34;, can do to stir the scientific community on some of their &#34;sacred&#34; assumptions. <BR> <BR>Adventism may have a fundamentalist flavoring but they also believe in certifiable truth. Some consider the controversial &#34;facts&#34; of secular science to be knocking on the church&#39;s door? If so, then eventually, the church&#39;s &#34;thinkers&#34; will &#34;see the light&#34;.  <BR> <BR>The church is bigger than any one truth. It has a worldwide task. Adventist scientists/professors are part of that task.  <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>

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#12 09-25-09 5:16 pm

elaine
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,391

Re: La Sierra in the News

If Adventists truly believe in &#34;Present Truth&#34; doesn&#39;t that infer that truth is not immovable, and that newer evidence may change previous positions?  It certainly is true in their theological beginnings and how they changed through the years.

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#13 09-25-09 5:23 pm

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Elaine, all new is not true. You seem to register for a class where new theories are put forward, then ask why Adventists, or for that matter, any seeker of truth doesn&#39;t swallow them hook line and sinker with no critical thought.  <BR> <BR>You seem to be infatuated with every sparkling bauble that comes along. Let&#39;s be a little more discerning, eh???

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#14 09-25-09 6:15 pm

elaine
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,391

Re: La Sierra in the News

How do you define &#34;Present Truth&#34;?

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#15 09-25-09 8:39 pm

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Let&#39;s start with TRUTH&#39;s definition, because most of us know what PRESENT means unless they are hallucinating or delusional:  <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>n., pl., truths &#40;trûTHz, trûths&#41;. <BR>Conformity to fact or actuality. <BR>A statement proven to be or accepted as true. <BR>Sincerity; integrity. <BR>Fidelity to an original or standard. <BR> <BR>Reality; actuality. <BR>often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence. <BR>[Middle English trewthe, loyalty, from Old English trçowth.] <BR> <BR>SYNONYMS   truth, veracity, verity, verisimilitude. These nouns refer to the quality of being in accord with fact or reality. Truth is a comprehensive term that in all of its nuances implies accuracy and honesty: &#34;We seek the truth, and will endure the consequences&#34; &#40;Charles Seymour&#41;. Veracity is adherence to the truth: &#34;Veracity is the heart of morality&#34; &#40;Thomas H. Huxley&#41;. Verity often applies to an enduring or repeatedly demonstrated truth: &#34;beliefs that were accepted as eternal verities&#34; &#40;James Harvey Robinson&#41;. Verisimilitude is the quality of having the appearance of truth or reality: &#34;merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative&#34; &#40;W.S. Gilbert&#41;. <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/truth" target=_top>http://www.answers.com/topic/truth</a>

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#16 09-25-09 8:42 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

If one has determined that La Sierra is teaching the truth, one has accepted tidbits as fact that are not fact. Because Evolutionists accept faulty dating mechanisms that are at the heart of these tidbits, does not make it Truth, it is Present, therefore it must be Present Falseness, eh??? <BR> <BR>There is such a thing in the definition above as veracity, or what has been  and is truth.  <BR> <BR>&#40;Message edited by Bob_2 on September 25, 2009&#41;

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#17 09-25-09 10:36 pm

elaine
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,391

Re: La Sierra in the News

Bob, what is the truth about the origins of this earth?  If you consistently disagree with the large majority of scientists, please present your view so we can compare. <BR> <BR>Not someone&#39;s else views:  the usual &#34;cut & paste&#34; job, but your own, personal opinion about how this earth was created.  And, on what evidence you have chosen to believe. <BR> <BR>If you disagree with LSU&#39;s teachers, are you prepared to judge their teaching and/or qualifications?  It&#39;s like criticizing your surgeon for certain procedures and wishing to show him how it&#39;s done.  When you&#39;re &#34;under the knife&#34; is not the time to object.  Ditto when you&#39;re neither a student nor parent to quibble over the teaching of courses unless you&#39;ve sat in the classes.

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#18 09-25-09 11:40 pm

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Elaine, you appear ready to throw out the Bible and it&#39;s story. My faith in God as my creator, complexity of my body and the world, the universe is greater than the knowledge of evolution. It makes no sense, something from nothing. You may say that is what God is, but my faith is not nothing, but science takes more faith to believe in than God and His ability to create as He has said He has, and His Son, whose death promises salvation, evolutionary science offers no hope, no eternity, but death and dust.  <BR> <BR>Your turn, Elaine, what does your belief offer.

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#19 09-26-09 12:49 am

bob_2
Member
Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

LSU is an Adventist college parents are increasingly not sending their kids to because they can get this stuff at better secular colleges, probably for a lot less. At the end of the day, they should be under the tent of SDA beliefs about origins, not under Elaine and her buddies tent. How&#39;s that Elaine, your turn.

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#20 09-26-09 3:55 am

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Elaine said: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=7&post=6930#POST6930" target=_top>http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?t pc=7&post=6930#POST6930</a> <BR> <BR>My cut and paste, how is that different than you enhaling all that is presented to you in a new class with material you have never heard but think is &#34;cool&#34; because of it&#39;s academic ring. It don&#39;t make it truth, because it&#39;s different.

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#21 09-26-09 7:39 am

don
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,121

Re: La Sierra in the News

<b><font color="0000ff">If one has determined that La Sierra is teaching the truth</font></b> <BR> <BR><b><font color="0077aa">If you disagree with LSU&#39;s teachers</font></b> <BR> <BR>What is La Sierra teaching? From what I have read, Bradley ran into trouble because he was insisting on citations only from peer-reviewed journals. This is teaching the scientific method. What evidence is there online that &#34;La Sierra&#34; is teaching the General Theory of Evolution &#40;a term coined by Kerkut&#41;, or what some call Macroevolution? <BR> <BR>For a more detailed discussion: <BR> <BR>I, thus far, believe that when God created, he made one pair of &#34;dogs&#34;. If we use the taxonomic ranks for &#34;dogs&#34;, we mean:<blockquote>•Kingdom: Animalia  <BR>•Phylum: vertebrate  <BR>•Class: Mammalia  <BR>•Order: Carnivora  <BR><b><font color="0000ff">•Family: Canidae  <BR>•Genus: Canis  <BR>•Species: C. lupis &#40;Canis lupus familiaris&#41;  <BR>•Subspecies</font></b></blockquote>Notice that &#34;dogs&#34; includes more than &#34;species&#34;. It includes Genus and Family. If I am correct, since creation changes have occured from species to Genus to Family. How have these changes happened? Natural selection, mutation, genetic &#34;intelligence&#34;, ???? <BR> <BR>It seems to me that the Specific Theory of Evolution &#40;another term coined by Kerkut&#41; does not offend my belief in Creation very much. Thus, I conclude that SDA university science professors do not violate the principles of Adventism by teaching it. The problem comes if they teach that the Creation of the world as described in Genesis 1 and 2 did not occur and if they teach that Genesis 1-11 is myth. <BR><font color="ffffff"><font size="-2">.</font></font>

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#22 09-26-09 12:26 pm

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Well, Don, a google away: <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>It is a matter of incontestable fact that naturalistic evolution is being taught at La Sierra University. This is not in and of itself a bad thing. Evolution should be taught at our denominational universities. But it should be taught as a competing and inimical worldview to the biblical worldview. We need our young people to know what it is they are up against, yes, but when naturalistic evolution is taught as fact or as the preferred and normative worldview, then we can be sure that the enemy has breached our lines. <BR> <BR>There is no point in equivocating. I have seen the class materials with my own eyes. Frankly, I think every Seventh-day Adventist deserves to see them. Our people need to know what is happening. Many of them have heard various rumblings, but being the conscientious, confiding, and hopeful people they are, they have generally assumed the very best. We are making capital of their trust. <BR> <BR>In 2003 I preached a two-week evangelistic meeting on the Loma Linda University campus. The event was student-led and university-sponsored. Many students from La Sierra University attended those meetings, and I personally visited with many of them. They told me what was being taught in some of their science classes. I shall never forget the looks and questions of unadorned incredulity that I witnessed among those students. I have talked to many more since. “What should I do?” “Should I say something?” “Should I just attend a non-SDA school?” “Do our leaders know about this?” “How come these people are allowed to teach at a Seventh-day Adventist University?” These young people, and many others like them, are justifiably nonplussed. Frankly, I share their confusion! <BR> <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/david-asscherick-email-to-the-general-conference/" target=_top>http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/david -asscherick-email-to-the-general-conference/</a> <BR> <BR>Here is a Pastor &#34;ratting out&#34; what is being taught and not just last year but for some time, sanctioned by Wisbey. I agree that a student needs to know what  he will run into out in the big cruel world in the way of Evolutionary teaching, but to teach it as fact, Naturalistic Evolution, you may as teach Atheism on campus and refund money to loyal Adventist parents.

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#23 09-26-09 12:48 pm

elaine
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 1,391

Re: La Sierra in the News

While the majority of mammals with which we are familiar fit the pattern described by Don, can you explain how the playtpus evolved? <BR> <BR>It has mammalian features as well as reptilian:  a curious creature indeed.  The October National Geographic contains a picture of this creature with this paragraph: <BR> <BR>&#34;Reptilian roots.  The platypus is so bizarre its discovery was first dismissed as a hoax.  After an Australian speciment arrived in London in 1798, biologists had to make a call:  reptile or mammal?  On the mammal side, it was covered in thick fur and nursed its young--with milky patches on the belly instead of nipples.  On the reptile side, it laid eggs.  Scientists voted mammal.   <BR> <BR>&#34;Now researchers have sequenced the platypus genome, confirming the classification but also finding much repitle-like DNA. <BR> <BR>&#34;Mammals and reptiles share common ancestors but headed down separate evolutionary paths 315 million years ago.  The platypus is a rare window on those first mammals, which had reptile traits such as egg laying.  When the playtypus branched off from the ancestors of most living mammals, it kept both its mammalian and reptilian DNA.  Like rats, the platypus had genes linked to a keen sense of smell, which may help it find food.  Like snakes, the platypus developed venom--with genes inhefrited from their common ancestor.  Male platypuses inject the venom through spurs on the hind legs when they fight over mates.&#34; <BR> <BR>Now, if the YEC earth creationists will explain this rare animal.

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#24 09-26-09 12:58 pm

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

Don, here is evidence of what is being taught: <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>May 26, 2009 <BR> <BR>Dear Mr. Wisbey: <BR> <BR>This letter is in regard to your letter about “naturalistic evolution” being taught at La Sierra University. I graduated from LSU in 2005, and in my last year I took a biology class that did teach naturalistic evolution. There was no discussion of divine guidance or intervention. Natural selection was taught as being the primary catalyst for the evolutionary process. Sir, I think you have committed a straw man fallacy in your letter, and have thereby avoided the issue. <BR> <BR>1. David said naturalist evolution is being taught at LSU. <BR>2. You said that implies atheistic evolution is being taught. <BR>3. You said, “We reject this implied atheistic charge.” <BR>4. You then seem to conclude the accusations are false, or at least undercut the education being offered. <BR> <BR>You never denied that naturalistic evolution was being taught. Instead, you denied atheistic evolution was being taught. Do you honestly believe theistic evolution is compatible with the Bible? Do you believe the biblical account of creation is literal? Naturalistic evolution is being taught, and I am a witness to it as are many others. In effect, your letter is misleading. Will you write a letter specifically denying some teachers at LSU are teaching naturalistic evolution as fact? <BR> <BR>Sincerely, <BR> <BR>Shane Hilde <BR> <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/letter-to-dr-wisbey-by-shane-hilde/" target=_top>http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/lette r-to-dr-wisbey-by-shane-hilde/</a>

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#25 09-26-09 1:00 pm

bob_2
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Registered: 12-28-08
Posts: 3,790

Re: La Sierra in the News

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>March 16, 2009 <BR> <BR>Elder Jan Paulsen, President <BR>General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists <BR>12501 Old Columbia Pike <BR>Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 USA <BR>Telephone: 301-680-6000 <BR> <BR>Dear Elder Paulsen, <BR> <BR>I recently gave a lecture at La Sierra University &#40;LSU&#41; on the topic of Evolution vs. Creation at the invitation of the student body &#40;2/20/09&#41;. It is no secret that the teachers of the upper division science courses at La Sierra are teaching the Theory of Evolution as “more than a theory”, the gospel truth in essence, to the science students at LSU – - to the active exclusion of any discussion of either creationists concepts or intelligent design theory – not to mention the unique SDA take on the origin of life on this planet specifically stated in the clarified fundamental positions of the SDA Church &#40;Belief #6; as of 2004&#41;. <BR> <BR>I know this issue has been brought to the attention of, Elder Mostert, back when Geraty was president of LSU &#40;before his retirement in 2006 when the current president, Randal Wisbey took over&#41;. I am also aware of the standard line given when the powers that be at La Sierra are/where questioned regarding this matter – that “We all believe in God and Creation here at La Sierra”. While this may be true in the most general sense, it certainly is not true when it comes to the unique SDA take on this issue. <BR> <BR>I have extensive syllabus materials which are being presented to the science students at LSU. I’d like to briefly quote some relevant passages from these syllabus materials to illustrate my point: <BR> <BR>From the Syllabus intro: “It is vitally important for you to realize that this course—as a science course—is describingevidence from mainstream science, and is not dealing with beliefs. Some will decide they cannot ‘believe’ the scientific evidence, and your right to decide that is encouraged and supported. If you expect to be competitive in any modern science-based profession, and hope to perform well on standardized or pre-professional qualifying exams, you simply must know what the scientific evidence is, whether or not you ‘believe’ it.” <BR> <BR>From elsewhere in the Syllabus: “Evolution is supported by an overwhelming and constantly growing amount of scientific evidence. New discoveries continue to fill the gaps identified by Darwin in The Origin of Species. The evidence is in the form of direct, measurable, empirical observation. <BR> <BR>Is it informed to dismiss Darwin’s ideas as ‘just a theory’? In science, the word theory means something that accounts for many observations and explains & integrates a great variety of phenomena. The colloquial use of the word theory comes close to what scientists mean by a hypothesis. There is nothing ‘theoretical’ about the evidence supporting evolution. The research about evolution is ongoing and continues to support and refine Darwin’s original ideas. No data have been found to refute the idea.  It is the single unifying explanation of the living world, and nothing makes much, if any, sense outside of this unifying theory. <BR> <BR>The reason this unifying theory has become so widely accepted in the scientific world is that it has stood up to intense, thorough, continual observation and criticism. The way to become rich & famous in science would be to show a fundamental error in the theory. The built-in skepticism of science prevents these ideas from becoming dogma.” <BR> <BR>Aside from such statements in the syllabus, no countering statements, creationist views or interpretations, or any uniquely SDA position on origins is mentioned in the entire syllabus. The students themselves tell me that only the Darwinian-style evolutionary view of origins is being taught in the science classes at LSU and that the teachers openly claim that Darwinian-style evolution is in fact true while the historical view of the SDA Church is clearly outdated and, well, obviously wrong.  It seems to me that the teachers at LSU are actively undermining what the Church, as an organized body, has stated very clearly to be fundamentally important and that these same teachers are simply thumbing their noses at the GC’s guidelines on this issue: <BR> <BR>“Church leaders at all levels are encouraged to assess and monitor the effectiveness with which denominational systems and programs succeed in preparing young people, including those attending non-Adventist schools, with a biblical understanding of origins and an awareness of the challenges they may face in respect to this understanding.” <BR> <BR>Such statements seem to carry no weight at LSU and are simply disregarded – quite openly. It seems that at the very least an employee of an organization should respect the goals that the employer feels are fundamentally important for the organization. Yet, such respect is lacking at La Sierra. I fear that unless steps are taken to correct this issue that irreparable damage is being done and will continue to be done to our young people – the future life blood of the SDA Church. It seems to me that this issue is becoming a more and more prominent problem in our Church – especially in our universities and even undergraduate level schools.  Sooner or later, I think this particular issue has the potential to split the Church.  As painful as it may be, steps need to be taken now to limit the severity of this split. I therefore solicit your help in this matter. <BR> <BR>If you are interested, the three-part video of my lecture at LSU &#40;along with a developing debate on this issue stared by Ervin Taylor, the executive editor of the journal Adventists Today&#41; can be viewed at: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.detectingdesign.com/videoclips.html#Creation" target=_top>http://www.detectingdesign.com/videoclips.html#Cre ation</a> <BR> <BR>I can also forward you the syllabus materials directly if you are interested and send you contact information for some of the students who have and are currently bringing this issue to my attention. I also have numerous other letters and E-mails from concerned parents, pastors, scientists, and other educators across the country if you are interested in these as well. <BR> <BR>Thank you again for your time and consideration of this matter. <BR> <BR>Sincerely, <BR> <BR>Sean Pitman, MD <BR><a href="http://www.DetectingDesign.com" target=_top>www.DetectingDesign.com</a> <BR> <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/letter-to-jan-paulsen-by-sean-pitman-md/" target=_top>http://www.educatetruth.com/articles/letters/lette r-to-jan-paulsen-by-sean-pitman-md/</a>

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