Van Jones out, but defiant

elaine · 09-11-09 1:27 pm

The bills before Congress declare illegal immigrants to be ineligible for subsidized benefits. It is impossible to imagine any final bill doing otherwise. Mr. Wilson was a boor, but some Republicans still insist that he was right because the bill doesn’t ensure that the undocumented have no insurance. Time for a reality check. Illegal immigrants are here. They are not eligible for Medicaid, but many still get sick and many get care, often in emergency rooms. The current proposals would likely not stop them from using their money to buy coverage through an insurance exchange, without subsidies. Just as they can do now. Should we take a harder line? Force people to prove citizenship in emergency rooms? That’s illegal, for good reason. Make verification requirements so onerous that not a single illegal immigrant slips through? Very expensive, and not smart. It would be highly likely to snag deserving citizens — like old people who don’t have their original birth certificates. And besides, we’ve tried that: A House oversight committee reviewed six state Medicaid programs in 2007 and found that verification rules had cost the federal government an additional $8.3 million. They caught exactly eight illegal immigrants. In the case of an epidemic, like swine flu, should illegal immigrants go untreated so they can infect legal residents and American citizens?

bob_2 · 09-11-09 7:58 pm

Bob Shields and Elaine are parsing words. The program may not insure the illegals, but health care is and will be administered to illegals. Like I said the first rattlesnake bite brought in to a hospital, they won't ask for his insurance card but they will start pumping the antivenom into him. Your picture of the illegal dying on the way back to Mexico with no health care being administered at US taxpayer cost, is plain silly. No Americans are going to allow that to happen. Maybe no insurance but a drain on our already overburdened health care system, for sure. If that is the parsing Bob Shields and Elaine are doing, it won't help produce savings which was the original discussion. Bob Shields, my approach to theology is to look at the bottomline, Obama is not. He must solve illegal immigration for that to happen.

george · 09-11-09 8:26 pm

Bob, My turn to apologize. I hadn't read beyond the post where you mistakenly attributed something to me. I should have finished reading all the posts and found your realization that you had made a mistake.

bob_2 · 09-11-09 8:37 pm

Thanks Sirje, apology accepted. Getting back to Wilson. This is about civility. He apologized, but said his statement was correct, and I believe it to be. Anyone showing up at an American Hospital with life and death issues will be served, with or without insurance. My Mom visiting from Canada, who was married to a Canadian citizen but was American, should have been traveling with insurance from Canada when she crossed the border. She had CHF and was put in a local hospital here in St. Louis and was not released from the protocol of CHF that the hospital has until she had run up a $15,000 bill which I am not sure how much was paid, but my guess the hospital wrote off most of it. In order for her to be released from the protocol of care earlier, she would have had to gone Against Medical Advice from the Hospital. You want to parse it, insurance or health care, do it, but either way no money is saved.

bob_2 · 09-11-09 8:43 pm

My apology to Bob Shield and criticism of Arthur Klym. You just aren't informed. Insurance can and will be sold to illegals, and health care will be given to illegals. READ UP. YOU WILL FIND YOU ARE WRONG!!!<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/sad.gif" border=0> The discussion has nothing to do with how I select my theology, but it may yours.

dcb · 09-11-09 10:01 pm

Memo to The Troll, Agreed. Great marketing idea. Insurance companies, to boost profits, deploy salespeople at the borders fulfilling a sales quota and keep following them until they sign and pay the premium. Then deny them coverage whenever they need it. For being pre-existing illegal. If insurance companies can hose Americans, illegals should be no exception. Resurrect Compassionate Conservatism. For All. (Message edited by DCB on September 11, 2009)

bob_2 · 09-11-09 10:59 pm

What's with the Trolls, hold over from childhood. Never liked their spikey hair, each to his own, I guess. Not too much critical thinking about the realities of illegals presenting themselves at our health care institutions. Turn them away, I would like to hear one story where the compassion wasn't shown, at our taxpayer expense or higher private rates.

elaine · 09-11-09 10:59 pm

Why should illegals be prevented from BUYING health insurance, or any other commodity. Obama spoke the truth when he said that under his plan no illegals will be covered by public insurance option; what one buys on the open market is not restricted. If we had rather pay much more for the illegals to be treated in the ER, we are cutting off our noses to spite our faces--rather stupid.

bob_2 · 09-11-09 11:01 pm

Elaine, they shouldn't be in the country to buy or receive anything. Solve the problem of illegal immigration!!!!

dcb · 09-11-09 11:51 pm

Troll, Do you have the right to vote in the US of A? Yes. No. (Message edited by DCB on September 11, 2009)

pilgrim99 · 09-12-09 12:16 am

There were two amendments to the House HCR Bills being debated, that would have specifically required verification of immigration/citizenship status; they were both defeated by the democrat led congress. This is what triggered the congressman's unfortunate outburst. The mainstream media does no justice to truth. It is amazing to watch the conflation of terms and outright omissions of facts. With all of this and as a child of immigrants of African descent, I do not fear President 0's march towards socialism. God rules!

bob_2 · 09-12-09 2:33 am

Careful, David, or Elaine gets a special civility test, to keep people like you civil on this forum. Devon, Hope you make all your choices so intelligently. Bring on the Apocolypse!!!! (Message edited by Bob_2 on September 12, 2009)

dcb · 09-12-09 11:49 am

Troll, Do you have the right to vote in the US of A? Man up.

bob_2 · 09-12-09 12:30 pm

David, search for the answer with our browser, but whether I do or not, does not prevent me from rendering an opinion on American politics. A Troll suggests one who intermittently trolls through commenting like you do. I was one of the ones to help save this forum when J.R. chose to no longer run ATomorrow.com. I am putting my signature quote back up that is a symbol of civility that should be shown to others that you are violating. I will not address you again, but Elaine, if you can persuade this "gentleman" to not go over this again, I will remove this signature quote again, as when Neal Walls decided enough was enough. Sorry, some people just never learn. (Message edited by Bob_2 on September 12, 2009)

elaine · 09-12-09 3:02 pm

Bob, whatever turns you on. It seems that telling U.S. citizens how to vote, from a non-U.S. citizen is the height of arrogance. Also, if you have a method of insuring that no illegals can immigrate to the U.S., I'm sure that the government would love to hear about it.

don · 09-12-09 3:43 pm

At our school, we had a teacher who was a USA citizen. Even though I encouraged him to do so, he felt that he should not comment on the way things were done here in Canada until he became a citizen. Now that he is a Canadian, he speaks his mind. If I live in a country and pay taxes, I have earned my right to speak, it seems. .

john8verse32 · 09-12-09 4:30 pm

Bob...acting just like God is said to have done.... punishing the innocent for what he claims are another's "transgression": Elaine, if you can persuade this "gentleman" to not go over this again, I will remove this signature quote again it wasn't Elaine who brought up your citizenship..or lack thereof.... so why are you personally attacking her ..again... how unChristian, but unfortunately, so God like.... lets see: David raped his neighbor, had her husband killed, and God killed Davids son as punishment.. hmmmmm Cain killed his brother.... yet God protected him, the killer.... Elisha selfishly wanted a sign that he was capable of wearing Elijah's cloak...so God sent bears to kill 42 kids.... for just kidding around... The inhabitants of the Holy Land who had NOT LEFT because of the drought, and had NOT fled to Egypt, God helps the returning hebrews kill them, including the women who had had sex.... and what had these people done? besides following another god, they had stayed there despite the drought, and made a go of it, while Abe went down to Egypt and pimped out his wife/sister the first time, and later sent his family down during the drought which Abe's God either could not or would not help overcome. Then, to "liberate" His friends, after waiting 400+ yrs, instead of personally torturing the Pharoah who was in charge, God killed innocent children and animals as a "lesson" to the one in charge!!! Bob: why are you doing the same? punishing the innocent to ask anyone whom you accuse of a transgression to stand up for your "godlike" actions? and I will change my profile signature question when you either answer, or remove yours. And I hope, that despite the claim that some people never learn, Doc Phil and we all hope you do. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/14/1840.jpg" alt=""> (Message edited by john8verse32 on September 12, 2009)

bob_2 · 09-12-09 4:37 pm

You know what they say about "useful idiots"!!!! On your signature question, never. You and Elaine are good at surmising and extrapolating, have fun with it.

dcb · 09-12-09 4:44 pm

Long Live The Energizer Troll. No internet forum would be complete sans one.

dcb · 09-12-09 4:57 pm

Hey Bob, See. If you could vote, you wouldn't feel so isolated. "We want our country to go back to the roots of doing what our Founding Fathers wanted us to do -- less government in every aspect of my life," she said. "We walked the streets of Williamsburg, and it felt like we were learning how to be a patriot." Ever been to Williamsburg? Nice short flight with no hassles from departure, center, or approach in a Cherokee from College Park, MD. before George Bush. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/12/AR2009091200971_pf.html" target=_top>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2009/09/12/AR2009091200971_pf.html</a> (Message edited by DCB on September 12, 2009)

bob_2 · 09-12-09 7:56 pm

Pretty good, for a 14th post, David. I'll pay more attention when you do.

elaine · 09-12-09 9:34 pm

Bob have you become a U.S. citizen yet.

bob_2 · 09-12-09 10:39 pm

Why is it important to you, and why do you feel it is your business. If I choose to remain Canadian and stay married to my wife who is American, you as an 84 year old woman are further embarrassing yourself. Most who have been aaked the question of whether they have read the Bible cover to cover have answered the question except you. Why is that? You feel it is necessary as Neal apparently does to be able to understand the Bible or answer questions about it???

dcb · 09-12-09 11:27 pm

I'll bet a Truckload of Fat Debbies travelling I-81 that Van Jones never thought he'd end up being discussed on a SdA forum. Message edited by admin on Aug. 13, 2009 Yep. Message edited by admin on Aug. 13, 2009 (Message edited by DCB on September 12, 2009) (Message edited by admin on September 13, 2009) (Message edited by admin on September 13, 2009)

bob_2 · 09-13-09 12:25 am

Don and Ryan, how did that last post survive the high road test, let alone the censors.

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