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<font color="0000ff">Read the whole chapter, in the Amplified Version:</font> <BR> <BR>Before my 6:44 post this morning (4:44 AM my time) I re-read the first 16 chapters in two translations. <BR> <BR>I didn't see any context that I had missed. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">Read the whole chapter, Jesus was from heaven, and life giving unlike Adam.</font> <BR> <BR>Wrong. Jesus was from heaven and had a spiritual body unlike Adam which had a physical body. It says Adam came from dust, Jesus was spiritual from heaven just as the other dwellers in heaven are. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">He is God/man, produced by a virgin.</font> <BR> <BR>Paul never says that in 1 Corinthians 15. For that matter, he doesn't ever say that in any of his letters. <BR> <BR>That is your own conclusion from non-Pauline sources.
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<font color="0000ff">HE CONQUER DEATH SO WE CAN BE RESURRECTED WHEN HE RETURNS.</font> <BR> <BR>That is false. Paul says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Now Jesus is in the process of conquering His enemies and THE LAST one will be death.<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>15:25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet -- <BR> <BR>26 <b><font color="ff0000"><font size="+1">the last enemy is done away --</font><font size="+2"> death;</font></font></b><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
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<font color="0000ff">You got it all wrong. He conquered DEATH. What's your alternative to that, conquering DEATH.</font> <BR> <BR>See post above. <BR> <BR>You need to read more carefully.
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<a href="http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=89&post=4190#POST4190" target=_top>http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?t pc=89&post=4190#POST4190</a> <BR> <BR>Sorry I got the wrong thread.
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Neal, John 10 says: <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>17The Father loves me, because I give up my life, so that I may receive it back again. 18No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do. <BR><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>I believe he conquers death here, so he can raise the dead at His second coming. Both instances prove His power over Death.
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The Gospel of John contradicts Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. I know that. <BR> <BR>The Pastorals of "Paul" rail against the 7 authentic letters of Paul. <BR> <BR>The activities of Paul as claimed by the Book of Acts contradict the actual activities of Paul as written in his own letters to the 7 churches. <BR> <BR>You can either believe Paul in his own words (except for some acknowledged interpolations) or you can believe the propagandists for the Roman Catholic Church that adopted the do-nothing Peter as there teacher of doctrine. <BR> <BR>Paul wrote 7 letters to 7 churches in 7 centers of Gnostic Christianity. He used many Gnostic terms and teachings. He taught a spiritual Christ that had appeared IN him. He wrote that he had proved his Jesus from the Hebrew Bible. He denied that he had been taught anything about his Jesus from man. If Jesus had been here you would think he would have listened to what Peter and the disciples had to say about Christ's teachings. <BR> <BR>But no. Whenever he wants to 'prove' something about his theology he quotes the greek OT. <BR> <BR>Then, the Gospels were written to support a literalist view and give support to the first level Initiates into the Mysteries of Christ. <BR> <BR>After Marcion had made up the first New Testament consisting of 10 etters of Paul and one of Marcion's own Gospels his followers rivalled those of the church in Rome, the literalist christians. <BR> <BR>Marcion was branded a heretic. The first Clement around the early 2nd century branded Paul a heretic and railed against him relentlessly. <BR> <BR>However, the followers of Paul's spiritual, non-man Christ were a target for conversion to the Roman church. <BR> <BR>A follower of Marcion's teachings, Valentinus (sp?) was excommunicated in 144. <BR> <BR>The Pastorals all show up together around 170 AD. They have Paul's name on them but teach a message in 180 degree opposition to Paul himself. <BR> <BR>They do the trick. <BR> <BR>They are still doing the trick. <BR> <BR>For example, Paul, from his 7 legitimate letters, would never tell women to sit down and shut up in church. The Pastorals do. <BR> <BR>So, the fact that John contradicts the clear teaching of Paul. You would EXPECT it. Almost all the other books of the NT would be EXPECTED to contradict the gnostic teachings of Paul in the 7 authentic letters.
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Wouldn't this critique be better under the Text Criticism thread than the Virgin Birth thread. Just asking. Certain info, if it had sources worth looking into. Since your brain, doesn't have any USB ports, one can't verify where you formulated your posits, and where to go to study them. I'll leave it as your opinion. If I had a source to go to online to study or the book you gained the knowledge from I could agree or disagree with your interpretations, but like I said, I'll consider it your opinion until then.
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<font color="0000ff">I'll consider it your opinion until then.</font> <BR> <BR>If I listed 50 references for every single thought it wouldn't make any difference to you. <BR> <BR>Therefore, I couldn't care less whether you consider them personal opinions of mine or a brilliant revelation from the Sophia.
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Discussion over, I guess. I have faith the Bible is true, you are a confirmed atheist. No movement from those positions since we started, eh??
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I debate you for the benefit of lurkers. I have never doubted your inability to revise your beliefs based on new evidence. <BR> <BR>Its like a Hitchens-D'Souza debate. They both know they are not going to change each other's positions but they do it for the audience. <BR> <BR>I think the audience here has become small and the questions from you repetitive. Its about time to abandon this debate.
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Neal, you were gone once, you came back, I've been here sometime. No one likes the kind of pressure you exert. However, Renie says she even enjoys the insults, but notice she doesn't join in, but tries to protect Elaine who does exactly what you do. I don't have any plans in the near future to be a Pastagarian or start studying Zostranianism. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>
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<font color="0000ff">No one likes the kind of pressure you exert.</font> <BR> <BR>That's a false statement. I like it.
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<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/kiss.gif" border=0>
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